hello everyone welcome to real talk with tia and jill today it's me with a very special guest marilyn rosa green welcome to real talk thank you so much for having me i'm so excited yes we are excited to have you unfortunately we do not have jill with us today she is traveling with her boys they made it to the championship game for hockey so we're super excited for them we are cheering for them and i hope they win So she is on her way there. So I get the pleasure of talking with Marilyn this morning. And if this is your first time here with us, hello. We're super excited about Real Talk because we really focus on honest conversations to lead people forward in the food space. And so we meet and we live, sometimes recorded every Monday. And then we also have a podcast that released the next day. So whether or not you're listening to us on the podcast or you're listening to us live, welcome, welcome, welcome. We're super excited about today's conversation, which is about the work underneath the work, what's really driving your leadership pattern. And our guest, Marilyn, she is an executive coach, a licensed professional counselor, and a nationally certified counselor with graduate training in both clinical mental health and HR management. One great thing, and the reason why we love having her here on Real Talk is that she has food experience. She worked in HR and in safety and food experience, which you'll get a little bit more after she introduces herself. But right now she works with senior leaders in manufacturing that's in these in high pressure industries who are really great at their jobs, really exceptional, but they're quietly exhausted. They're kind of working through, which I know we've talked to many of you all where you're burnt out and you are performing, but there's something that's kind of holding you down or really you're not that happy at work because you have these mixed feelings around it, but you might be a high performer. So we're going to talk more about that today. And with that, I will turn it over to Marilyn and have you introduce yourself to our audience. Hi. Okay. Well, yeah, I mean, that was a great introduction. Thank you so much. I guess what I'll tell you is a little bit more about my experience in manufacturing. So before I came on to manufacturing, I was an HR manager for a Spanish teaching online school back when Skype was the thing. Zoom did not exist. It was a long time ago. Now people are like, what is Skype? What age guys? They're going to be, you know, asking AI. I almost said Google, but no. But yeah, and I was very cozy. I learned a lot. It was my first HR job. I went to school for psychology and I was in the Boston area and yeah. it was great. I think I just got to a point where my nervous system was just, you know, just itching for something different. And I did a little bit of research. I found manufacturing and I thought I literally have never been to a factory. I don't know anybody that works in manufacturing. What is this? But I talked to, uh, the, uh, the, uh, a recruiter and, and she just spoke so well about the new team that was coming in, all the plans they had for expansion, um, for this company. And I was just so excited. I'm like, great. I know nothing about this. Like this is perfect because I was looking for a new challenge. And, uh, most people be like, are you insane? That that's, why would you, and it was a temporary job, but it wasn't even like a full time job, but I, I was ready to just like, I need something. I'm itching. Like I just need a challenge. I need to grow. I, I want to see what, what else is out there. And, um, you know, uh, I went for it. And then that was it. I was locked in. I loved the people that were such a passion for creating these different recipes and all the different, I think, technical things that went with it that I did not know anything about. I learned about lean. I learned so much and, Not just in HR, because HR looks very differently from industry to industry and also the size of the company and all these different things. So that was, I just soaked it all in and it was amazing. So I was there for a few years. Then I took a little bit of a break and we can come back to that. I experienced burnout really early in my career. And so I took a little bit of a break. I ended up back in food manufacturing very shortly. Couldn't stay away. And so then, uh, and then, um, you know, I, I, uh, ended up, um, you know, relocating, um, to Kansas and I stayed in food manufacturing, which is something that's very common to relocate and to move, you know, States or, or, you know, that kind of thing. Um, just going where their job is. Right. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, I was in, in manufacturing for a while. Then I became an HR consultant, um, And there's a story attached to that as well. But basically, it was just something that I wanted to do. And I had this ten-year plan. I was going to become an executive and then, you know, do the typical, you know, path, right, that you do when you want to be a consultant. And my husband, who's a business owner, still is, looked at me and said, ten years? What? Why? What are you waiting for? You can start today. He's like, you've been doing this on the side anyways. Why would you wait ten years? And I'm like, And I was just like, why wouldn't, I was so confused. I'm like, why wouldn't I? I mean, everybody, who's going to hire me? I was, you know, that was kind of like, who's gonna, and he's like, what are you talking about? You don't need, like, you have, how many more degrees you're going to get? Like, what are you doing? And at the moment, at that time, like that moment, I was just like, I feel a little bit attacked. Like, But he was honest. He was so encouraging and believed in me. And then that was kind of it. I was like, okay, I'm going to go and I'm going to do it. And of course, it only made sense to knock on some doors. And that's what I did. I helped companies, small, medium-sized manufacturers. And I started doing more leadership development because it just came natural. When you're on the floor, you're partnering with supervisors and managers and in HR, that's kind of like you wear this hat of culture champion in a way it's assigned to you, whether you like it or not. And I did a lot of training and development and all those different things. And so that, that was something I was curious and I had the psychology background. And so Yeah, so I did a lot of leadership development through that time. And then I realized there was something more to this that I was interested in understanding for the teams that I was supporting. And so I went back to school and became a licensed counselor. And that's... Now, what I do is I've kind of come full circle to this and I work with executives and their teams on improving their performance through the lens of how do you become a more intentional leader? So what I do and I have a very simple three hour framework is we we understand how to recognize patterns and. And then we regulate how we feel and think about those patterns. And then we can move with intention by the third R is redirect and take intentional action. And that's what I do today. I love that. I love that. And for people who are listening, they know that that resonates with Catalyst because just Jill and myself being certified coaches and helping people really think about how to become more aware of themselves, how to reflect more, and then choose to make a different decision. I love your three Rs. That makes total sense when you think about how the leaders lead with intention versus, you know, I'm overwhelmed, so I'm responding this way, or I'm happy and I'm responding this way without actually reflecting on their actions, what's happening around them. And then we like to talk about a lot in our strategic leader on who do you want to, what type of leader do you want to be? What values do you want people to see when you walk into the room? You have to be intentional about that. Yeah, one hundred percent. And I just want to clarify that I do as much as it is, you know, I bring my counseling practice. The work that I do with clients is absolutely very much goal oriented, because I think that's really just important to clarify that when you're seeking more support. deeper type of work, right? You really want to understand who you are and why you do the things that you do. It does have to have a North star, right? So we do have to focus on, um, to be intentional. You have to be clear, not just on who you are and why you do the things you do, but where are you going? So I think like making that connection of that, I think is, what allows me to be very helpful is that because i have that experience in in business development and hr then i can think of okay how would a consultant or how would a strategist think about your specific situation right and that's important because for leaders their performance is going to be um you know reviewed based on the competitive advantage they bring to the organization so the results the organization is getting it's going to be really tight to you and so we don't want to forget that piece that's really important for leadership it's not just you know, how you feel and all of those things are important, but that's just the, the, the, the way in which we get to where you want to get as the leader is this is just the framework, the foundation. And then we build, we build from there, but it's always going to be very focused to what's your vision. And I think that's one thing that we lose, um, you know, in manufacturing is because it's so dynamic and there's so many different conflicting priorities. Everything is on fire. Right. Everything is urgent. Everything is urgent. It's, it's really easy to get in this habit of like, I got to fix everything and I got to be everywhere and I got to do everything. And then it just becomes this all like all or nothing thinking. And so that's where in, in, you know, in my coaching, we kind of peel that back and we start to understand what are the patterns that you are repeating that are actually keeping you stuck. Like you're thinking you're doing all of these things to get ahead, but it's actually holding you back. Oh, yes. Oh, that's big. I'm curious, like this rare combination of clinical mental health training, HR management, executive coaching, How do you see all three of these sort of show up when you are helping leaders build those goals and think about and thinking about the vision of who they want to be? Yeah, absolutely. You know, a lot of times with the work that I do now, um, This leader, and I'm thinking of one person that I just finished working with, he's known who he is. That's the thing, that you have a really good level of self-awareness. I think that is that sometimes they forget that they have that level of self-awareness because there's a disconnect at some point when they... Fortunately or unfortunately, I don't know when they come to me, it's like, okay, I'm, you know, I have been in this role for six months, a year, or I've been in this company for, let me stick to one example, just for clarity purposes. So if they have been with a company for twenty years and now the B. part of the reason why this company is making some big changes is because of this leader's contribution, of course, but now they're ready to maybe sell the company or expand the company. And so they have been really excellent at running the smaller plant and, and doing all the things they're supposed to do because they have grown with the organization, right? Their leadership has evolved. And so now they're being asked to, step up and this is what they've been waiting for. They're ready for it. But then when they're in it, right, they don't realize that the work that they have to do, it's not about their performance anymore. It's not about the, the output. It's not about doing the task and prioritizing. It's not really the work. It's really about what's within because this, this, level of change is going to challenge them in a way that nothing else has. It's going to challenge the way that they view themselves. It's challenging their identity. It's challenging how they manage this level of pressure. They are already resilient. They already have... literally that's their job to put out all the time. But now the issue is they have a question. They're questioning themselves, you know, because it's different. There's some, something happened that the ground shifted and they're walking this very carefully because they don't want to make a mistake because they've been waiting so long for this chance and they don't want to ruin it. Whatever the belief is that's underneath that, They think, well, if I just do more, if I just do all these things that I've been doing, it's going to work out. And then there's a disconnect of like, this is not working. Right. This is not working anymore. And so when they come to me, then we can, okay, let's take a step back. Let's look at the patterns. And so I ask certain questions to first meet them where they're at. Understand who they are as a leader, as a person, because that level of growth in your leadership at that point, it cannot happen without the personal growth. I just don't think it can. It really has to be from the inside out. And so then... Then when we understand really well with their help, because they are self-aware, they're just struggling with a little bit of self-doubt, right? When I'm able to pull this out, then we look like, okay, let's talk about your team. Let's talk about your goals, your vision for your organization, and also what expectations they have of you as well. It cannot be just one-sided. We have to look at both. What do you want out of this, but what are you expected to accomplish? And so then then we look ahead and we say, OK, what is this going to look like in whatever time frame makes sense for the work that we're doing? Six months. Is it a year? OK. And then then we kind of work backwards. OK, so based on that, what do we need to focus on in the next thirty days, sixty days, ninety days? And then we go from there. very intentional, very simplified, but absolutely very personalized and informed by, again, those patterns, how they feel, and then connected to their goals. Yeah, I love that. One of the things that we see that people kind of run into exactly what you're talking about, it's like this Like you said, it's like challenging their identity or they're needing to do something different than what they did before. We see it when people kind of move from like this execution role to management, where they kind of, we like to call it middle managers, where it might be their first opportunity leading like a large team or a team at all. You know, they're typically getting some type of direction from up above. And then they're managing the people who are actually doing the executional work. A lot of times people at that middle manager stage, they haven't quite moved into leadership from a mindset perspective because they are still trying to do the things that they were doing before. And it's hard for them to give up those things because they're great at it. They've been doing it right. It's almost like it reminded me of this identity sort of like crisis that you're talking about where they're doing what made them successful to get to this point. But they're kind of failing at that job because they don't really have the internal awareness or the skills that when you know I like to think about like the leadership skills that they need to kind of move into this manager role they've just kind of gotten promoted because like you said they've been great at their role the organization is growing they got promoted whatever the the situation happened to be do you see the same thing Yeah, for sure. I'm so glad that you brought up that example, because that is definitely something that I work in a lot. And, and I honestly think that this is this is where micromanagers are born. You know, no micromanager woke up one day and was like, you know what, I'm gonna be a micromanager. I just want to control everything and everyone. And I'm going to be the bad guy. Absolutely not. I think that there are some cases where, you know, now that I have this clinical insight, there is narcissistic tendencies and like, there's like all this other stuff that, that it's like mainstream, that it's so real, but it's absolutely not the majority. The majority of people that fall into this category of anxious leadership or perhaps struggling with micromanagement or trust issues and things like that, it really comes from almost always, I see it over and over, especially in manufacturing or large organizations like that where the middle manager, like you call it, is so broad and it's so messy because it's like, well, you're supposed to be like... strategy and sixty percent but it's it just like it's it's not very clear right um and it's very operational foundationally so that also gets really confusing um to get pulled into things and then especially if you're in the same location right then people know you for the this the person that does this and that and that's what you know what i mean so it's complex but certainly um it's it's so clear to me now is that this is where these micromanagers are born because they're really good they were really good at the task oriented things the operational but the execution but then when they have to kind of step back from that and and strip that down then who are they now right Right. Like, yeah, they get this kind of thrill of being really good at accomplishing all of these different things. And that's great. And they want more. They do want to grow. Yet they just want to make sure keywords. Right. make sure every time I hear that, I'm like, all right, what are you trying to make sure? What are you trying to control? Really? Right. I want to make sure that everything goes well, that my team is not failing, that, um, I don't make a mistake. Like I've worked really hard when I'm, this is dialogue that I hear. I worked really hard to get what I'm at. I'm not just going to let it fall, fall over. And so you engage in that thinking and now you're, you're, you're performing based on that which means that you're going to double check on things or you're going to be asking more questions or you're going to surprise visit them on the floor you're right whatever the thing is and so while is well intended um and i do have a lot of empathy because your nervous system is very activated when when you're responding like this it's sending the wrong message to your team. What they're hearing is, oh, you don't trust us. Now that you're in this new role, you think you're all that. The majority of the times, I don't think it is. And maybe I'm being genuine or naive, but I do think that it it's willing to i mean i i've met i myself have had uh micromanagers that i look back now and i think poor thing like breathe like just you know like it's gonna be okay but you know um it's It's hard. And it takes time. And now the work that I do is it doesn't have to take that long and it doesn't have to be that hard. There are actual tools. There's evidence-based, uh, you know, tools and, and, and way of working with clients. Um, yeah. that, um, it, it, it doesn't have to be a therapeutic, uh, environment to do that. It could definitely be in a coaching training environment. Um, if, if you're really, if you identify that, uh, or resonating with what I'm saying, there's absolutely, you don't have to learn the hard way. Right. Yes. Yes. And you can learn right. How to, you know, regulate yourself, how to make different decisions, how to show up intentionally. on your job. You know, that's one thing that we talk about all the time where like, you don't, you don't have to set aside additional time to practice and to say, like, even going down the example of having the micromanager where it's like, okay, what if you don't make sure this time and let your team do what they're going to do? And then let's see what happens next. You can do that in your regular life. You don't have to set aside a special project to try to do that. You can do that on any project, really, that you're working on where I like the, I'm just going to make sure. Well, what happens if you don't make sure this time? Yeah. You know? And what happens if someone makes a mistake? Because a part of leadership is that your team will make mistakes. So what happens if someone makes a mistake? If you don't make sure and then someone makes a mistake, what's the worst that can happen? Yeah, one hundred percent. And I I could not agree with you more. And I really love the all the tips that you and Jill like share in your podcast. Like I like the steps or like the two, three things that you can do. I like that because it gives people options of, you know, people people operate at different levels and connect or hear messages differently. and let them sink in at different times. So it's kind of nice to hear different options. You know, I, I always like kind of go back to like, some of the clients that I worked with where they know everything they need to do and yet they don't, you know? So it's like, that's, that's a real struggle there because just because you know what to do, um, doesn't mean you're going to do it. And sometimes you just have to be reminded, like, like you said, like, well, what if, what if you don't make sure what's going to happen? And, and it, for, for someone who's in it, like in that, in that space of like, well, I think everything is going to fall apart. The thought of letting go, it's very hard. And sometimes you have to work through a process of regulating and supporting yourself, right? Not controlling. When I say regulate, I mean, like control your emotions or avoid them. I mean, like process them, understand what is it that is coming up and how that shows up in you. Holistically. Right. Let me give you an example. Like when, when I, when I was first, um, burning out, um, very early in my career, um, first of all, I didn't know what burnout was to be completely honest. Like at that point, I did not know what that was. And certainly anybody I think on the outside wouldn't be able to tell that I was burning out because when you're working all these hours and you're getting promoted and you're, you know, doing all the things and you have really good feedback and every, and you're excited, you show up happy. I mean, you're, Nothing seems really wrong. So, I mean, nobody's going to question that. But I remember going to the urgent care one night because for like weeks, I kept noticing that I was like lightheaded for literally weeks, lightheaded. What is going on? And I remember driving and feeling like I was going to. Not faint, but I felt really lightheaded where I was like, oh, this is scary. I need to do something about this. So I went to urgent care and I'm like, I don't know what's wrong. Like, I'm really young. I'm really healthy. What's the problem? And the doctor started to ask me some questions and then come to find out. The tension, the muscle tension and strain around my neck and my shoulder was so much that I was having difficulty breathing, right? Wow. Oxygen, blood sugar, all of that. And so then I was feeling lightheaded. Mm-hmm. And then here's the kicker. When he brought that up, I was like, you know what? I have been feeling a little bit of pain and it's kind of hard to turn my neck. You would think that by three, four weeks, I would have noticed that. But when you're just like reacting to everything and you're focused on what's happening out there and not in here, you just ignore it. And it's not on purpose. It's not like you're thinking, oh, I don't care about myself. It's nothing like that. It's just... you're just not noticing these things. And that's one of the things that I help when I work with teams, when I don't do it, it's not so much individual work, but when I work with teams, I run this workshop called the internal audit for that reason, because I want, and you know, we do, we like audits. We like to be audit ready and manufacturing. Yeah. I love it to steal that, you know, because I'm like, okay, I want you to put your hat on. I want you to put your, your, your, you know, your, your notepad and everything. I want you to pretend like you're going on the production floor and like, you're just observing and you're, you're looking at yourself. Like, and I kind of go through that process of like, what are you noticing? Because sometimes you don't talk about what's wrong if you don't know what's wrong. If you don't know, it's something to pay attention to. So, you know, I kind of went on a tangent there all to say, you know, sometimes we don't know what we don't know. And we think everything's fine because you're delivering, because you're performing. And it's that exact thing. you know, amazing trade of, of this leadership that is really nurtured in manufacturing because it's so fast paced because it's dynamic and you figure it out that kind of ambition, if you want to call it that, that makes you really good at what you are, but it's a paradox because then you, Then that one thing that makes you really good also like makes you overwhelm or stuck or, or, you know, strains your, your neck like happened to me and you end up in the, the urgent care. Okay. I needed, I can't, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. That was a bit of a scare for me. And I remember the doctor asking me, you know, are you stressed? And I'm like, I mean, no, not not really. I my concept of stress at that point wasn't, you know, what it really was. I just like, well, I mean, there's like a million things I got to do. And as long as I'm doing them, I feel relief. I feel great. So, yeah. Yeah, and your story resonates with me because I too have had shoulder neck problems from just being burnt out. And it's something, like you said, just not having the words for it at the time. Or even noticing and recognizing this is something where literally I've had these conversations over the last few weeks around just high performers, even within students, like kids students. Being high performers and like a connection between like migraines and having headaches in school. You know, I had migraines in college and I remember my neurologist saying, are you stressed? And having the exact same reaction as you is like, well, not really. And then she's like, even with your workload, like school load, I'm like, I mean, it's challenging. And it's one of those things that I think it just goes back to as human beings, sometimes we can't identify that we're even overworked or that we are tensing our shoulders or in your case, even limiting your breathing because of what's happening around you. And even some of the things you talked about earlier on just that pause. you know and being able to reflect and becoming more aware around like well what does my body do when I'm in a meeting where I feel anxiety how do I process I love how you said this too where it's not about trying to avoid these emotions because anxiety is not bad emotion it's not a bad emotions emotions aren't bad that's what's happening your body's trying to tell you something So how are you processing those things so you can show up as your best self without damaging your body or damaging those around you? I know a lot of people listening are probably thinking, yeah, when I have high anxiety, I behave differently. Some people put their anxiety even on other people. And then now your whole team feels like things aren't really aligned. um but being able to process hey okay i'm feeling a little anxiety about this um i'm feeling a little anxious like how do i how do i process that what do i need to do what like you said tools rituals um ways of being that i can um kind of step into when i'm feeling this emotion to be able to reset myself right and show up intentionally Yeah. And, you know, one of the strongest shifts that I see when clients are experiencing transformation, it's it's realizing that they don't have to work so hard at making these changes anymore, that it's actually very that it's really comes down to that internal dialogue changing. And once you can have a different dialogue, like relationship with self, it really then everything else is a lot smoother, you know? And that is a really interesting thing because again, for someone who, for me, it's about the results, it's about the output and then sort of realizing slowly over time as I got more curious about, well, then what's the problem? The answers I was getting was just not enough. It's not a lack of training. It's not a lack of awareness. Then what is it, right? And so when I realized that on the deepest of level, the dynamic of what you're doing and who you are and how you see that, that perception of who you are, that is so important. And so if you are constantly being really hard on yourself, if you are questioning whether you're stressed or not. So basically, you know, accepting that you're even stress that, that is a point of resistance right there for some, because, well, what does that mean? If I, if I'm stressed over this, does that mean that I can't handle this? Right. Right. I can handle this, you know? And so there's some denial there or some disappointment in self. And then, and then you become like a really harsh critic, um, of, of everything that you're doing. And that's, first of all, not helpful. Like that's not going to serve you. Um, but, but it's also understandable because, um, to be able to succeed in that kind of, in that level of environment, you do have to push yourself. You it's not about removing the pressure. It's not about controlling the pressure. Um, it's about being aware of the pressure and, and understanding that you have the power to turn that down. Like, like if you're hearing me know that I'm like moving my hands, it's like, I'm changing, like adjusting the volume of like a radio, um, We use buttons now. I know. I get it. I'm a millennial. That's cool. There you go. I get it. But anyways, you're adjusting the volume. You're turning it up or down. You can do that. It doesn't mean you're changing the circumstances. Right. Because there's a lot of things out of your control. But what you can adjust is your attitude, your perception, your mindset. You can. And then... then you can really really clear about what steps you're going to take so they're intentional so they're mindful um you know we can't just live in them in the mindfulness and then not hope for the best we do definitely have to have that strategy and the follow through But it's going to feel really confusing and messy if there's a lot of overthinking here. And then we're just trying to go straight to to solving, which is something that we're really good at in manufacturing. We are problem solvers, right? Yes, you're absolutely right. We try to skip the mindfulness part. And we find ourselves in the same exact spot again, because we don't spend time on actually thinking about our mindsets, right? How we show up. I'm curious with what do you see is the impact on organizations. So you kind of talked about the people that you work with. There's an output, right? How do you shift the way that you're showing up and being intentional so you can accomplish your goals and can accomplish the goals of the organization and what other people have for you? I'm curious when a leader is in this space of not really being mindful, right? Haven't really developed this awareness yet of I'm in a different role. I'm doing something different or I'm going through this burnout. What does the organization lose? Like what is it costing the organization when leaders do not have the ability to kind of show up intentionally or they're not developing other people on their team or they're holding on too tightly to things, you know, or they're micromanaging. What does the organization lose when their leaders are like this? I mean, I think that at some point it could hurt, you know, it could hurt. If I look at the metrics, like your, your, um, retention perhaps, or, I mean, it, it, it could impact even, um, safety metrics or quality, because the way then that the person is engaging or disengaging will be impacted. And so it impacts the organization. So some of these metrics are very measurable. Now, can we tie them to engagement, disengagement to the leaders? That's a That's an interesting concept there. And I won't dive into that because, you know, a lot like the majority of people, according to to to, you know, the data that are quitting, it's typically because a lack of clarity. at least in the last ten years. It's a lack of clarity of the jobs. And so a lot of people will, HR, you know, consultants will argue, like, what is really costing the organization? You know, we see the retention. I mean, but turnover, it's always been an issue in manufacturing. I think that the average turnover, it's like forty percent. And that's across the board. I don't know that that's global, but definitely for the United States, at least. And I mean, So that's always the way that the leader is engaged or disengaged or struggling with things, yes, certainly is going to have an impact on the organization's ability to retain and perform and all of that. But I think that's up for debate. And I think ultimately focusing too much on what it costs your organization isn't really helpful. That might be controversial, but like, I don't think it's real talk. I mean, because, because if you're not there and I'm speaking to the leader specifically, if you're not there anymore, guess what? They're going to go on. Like the product is going to be made. Like you, if you're worried about what's going to cost, you're going to, we're focusing on the wrong thing. And also speaking from the organizational perspective, which is really comes down to like the, mostly the CEO and the CFO it's, it's, or maybe the COO as well as, okay. Yeah. what is it costing us? And it's when we say us, the organization, we're really talking about, what are we really talking about? Are we talking about the people or are we talking about the bottom line? Let's get really clear about that. And so if you can be honest with What is it really costing you? What is it that you're looking at? Through what lens are you looking at it? Then you can really focus on the right things. Because if you're worried about the bottom line, then you're not really going to be caring much, I don't think, anyways. And it's not like you have to choose, right? But if your main concern is the metrics and the bottom line, then... how you act, the intention in which you make decisions about how to support your leaders through their development, it's not going to be the same if you are really focusing on how their disengagement is costing them. Right. What is it costing the leadership team, them as an individual, as a team, as a peer-to-peer, right? And so... again, that's a little bit harder to act on because how are you measuring that? Right. Yeah. What kind of data we're very data driven in many, in manufacturing. And so, you know, even as an HR professional, you have to worry about all these different things, especially if you're in like that middle kind of management, you, if you're a plant manager, you have to, or, or plant HR manager per se. Um, You own a lot of different things. You own comp, you own development, you own employee relations, performance, all these different things. I would argue that the same is true for quality as well. They have to do quality control, quality assurance, sanitation, all these different things. And then when you realize something is, when you're looking at a leader that's very disengaged and you're worried about what is costing the organization, I mean, I don't know, you know, you're going to be worried about the things that need to get done if that person is there. You know what I'm saying? So you're not responding with empathy at all, right? And I don't blame you. Those things need to get done and you still need to have those results. But I think the way that you treat people is going to be more beneficial for the organization. I think that the focus on the workforce and their well-being is going to be beneficial because if you're looking at data, if you're looking at the right data, more and more people in manufacturing are taking leave of absences because of mental health. More people are taking longer leave of absences, not related to work injuries. So, so like, you see what I'm saying? So, so if you're looking at the, the, the disengagement, if you're looking at, if you dig a little bit deeper and you're focusing on, you know, the the actual data that's around that conversation great we can do something about what it's really costing the organization but if you're focusing on the other things you know the bottom line the the customer complaints all of the again that's all useful information and we should take a look at it but if you're only looking at through that lens then it's not not a really a people problem right yeah Yeah. I mean, there's a few things that you said that I'm like, yes, yes, yes. And I mean, I feel like in the, I feel like this is all industries for sure. But, you know, we talk about in the food industries on like, what are our assets look like? And we forget to think about that people is our greatest assets. you know, no matter how much we try to roll out AI, we try to do, you know, robotics and automation, all of those things, there's still people behind it. And if we're not actually thinking about what is the impact to our people assets, you know, what is the impact to the peer to peer? And, you know, one of the stats that we share all the time is a study that came out of Stanford, and I forgot who they partnered with, but they show that organizations that have like toxic cultures, work environments grow about ten percent year over year. Have about ten percent growth is the way that they say it. And then organizations that have strong cultures, they see forty two percent growth. So to your point, if you work in a toxic environment or you are a leader, too, who are having negative impacts because of your environment and lack of development and these things, the organization could just replace you and move on and they will launch products and go that way. but organizations that actually value their people and invest in their people and make sure that their people to people interaction is good, they see even more growth there because their people are dialed in and they're not seeing exactly what you're talking about, turnover and lack of engagement and these things that really cost the people side of your organization. And I think people miss that, you know, some leaders miss that, because they're only thinking about the bottom line, you know, which, like you said, is important things that we need to look at, right, someone needs to be focused on those things. But we also need to focus on the people side of things as well. And that's a really, you know, challenging, you know, as an executive, who who's In a year's worth, when they're getting basically reviewed or within ninety days, a lot of times it's it's doesn't matter how good of a person sometimes they are or what they've done with the people, if the numbers that they were brought in to change or not changing, they're not doing a good job. A lot of times, unfortunately, the way that we measure success is really based on what the organization is doing. And so I get the pressure and it's easy to prioritize those because the people side of things takes time. It's not something that you can just easily, oh, let's just change an equipment and boom. Like, let's just go ahead and change this process or let's just go ahead and... it's a little bit more complicated than that. Right. And so there's a lot of energy that goes into that type of transformative execution. I get, I get that. Um, it doesn't mean it's less important. I just, I guess I just wanted to add that, that I can see how, you know, they're really good back to like what we're saying earlier. Like they're really good. They're really excellent at, you know, creating results. And that's why they were brought into an organization like in this example. Um, And that's what they're expected to do. I get how we lose sight of that. And yes, they were brought in to increase revenue or to, you know, whatever the case may be. Yeah. And as a leader, you have a great responsibility to the workforce, to the people that you are supposed to mentor and develop. And so, you know, that has to be part of the conversation. I think that the perception of employees being your customers, I love when people talk about that, when leaders talk about that, like how can we make decisions if we're looking at our employees as customers? That changes a lot, a lot in how we do things. because you know we're creating this in food right we're creating this this product based on specifications that meet our customers needs and and wants and we're catering them to them and only them yeah then we're you know we're missing an opportunity really to to grow a business and sustain a business um if we're if we're only taking care of them and not looking at you know our our employees as as also customers Yeah. And I like the way you said that as, as leaders, we have the responsibility to take care of our workforce. You know, we have the responsibilities of taking care of people around, around us, people that we work with, people that's cross-functional, you know, wherever it is, like you have a responsibility of, of taking care of others when you're at work. Yeah. And if you're not taking care of yourself, how are you going to take care of others? So kind of full circle here. It's like, if you're, if, if the pressure is running you and you're not able to dial that and that you won't be able to take care of yourself and then you're not going to be able to properly take care of your teams. Um, and so if you're running patterns, um, that you feel you're noticing, oh my gosh, every time I am called to do this, I'm resistant to that, or I put it off, or every time that this employee comes to me with an issue, I get really tense and I just blur things out, or I over talk, or I go quiet. Why is that? If you're curious about that and you're wanting to process that and work through that. I have an amazing assessment that I've built in the last year. It's called the pressure paradox assessment. I would love if you're listening to this as resonates, please take it. It's on my website and I know you're going to talk a little bit more about that, but I just want to, as I'm talking about that, just tell people, please take it. I respond to it personally. Give me about a couple of days and I give you a really comprehensive breakdown of what that pattern is and And even just taking the assessment itself helps you, and it only takes a few minutes, really have a little bit more self-awareness and intention about paying attention to those patterns. And it's really helpful to see that and then seeing the belief underneath that. I love that. And we'll make sure that we link it into our show notes as well. It's the Pressure Paradox Assessment and it's located on your website, right? At MarilynRoseConsulting.com. Yeah, MarilynRosaConsulting.com. And then also on LinkedIn, it's on my profile. So you can find it there as well on my feature section. Yes, please. And connect, connect with her on LinkedIn, connect with her, you know, I'm super excited about this assessment and the way that you talk about how people can tap into, right. What's, what's underneath, what's underneath of the decisions that they're making and what's kind of, what's kind of driving those versus like you being intentional in leadership. So, you know, people are listening and I'm sure there are people, especially high performers that are just listening to this and they're like, yeah, you know, my shoulders are tight. You know, like I'm feeling this, I'm resonating with this. What are maybe two or three takeaways that you would give that person or at least places to start to examine this and work through this? Yeah, for sure. Um, I would say, um, try to just pay attention for one week, just audit yourself for one week for this next week. Don't do anything differently other than just pay attention for a just notice how you're waking up in the morning, you know, when you have lunch, when you talk to someone, just like intentionally just tune in for like a minute and just notice what's going on. And if you can journal about it, great. If not, just pay attention for a week and you'd be surprised how much data you can gather. And when I say pay attention, pay attention to your breathing, pay attention to, your sleep, just really try to almost disconnect from yourself, just one circle of separation, just one degree of separation, if you will, you're looking at yourself and just pay attention, just gather information about what's going on in your body and your mind, right? Yeah. You know, if you're noticing when your thoughts are racing, are you noticing, you know, when you wake up in a panic? Are you noticing where you're oversleeping? Are you noticing that you haven't really been drinking water like on a certain day or like whatever it is? Just pay attention to you. And I would say that's that's one step that you can take. I know you said to, you know, a woman. two, three, but this is really like, it sounds simple, but it's hard to do if you're constantly going and going. So I would just, I would just, I would just do that for, for a week. And then, um, as a second step for the second week, if you will, just pick one thing that worked really well that last week that helped you, that supported you. And however way, if you want to look at it as your way to lead, as your way to perform or your energy level or whatever it is, you know, or to get ahead for the week or organize or feel relieved, whatever you feel like, OK, this was helpful. Take that and then focus on that that second week. Just give a little bit more, kind of like amplify that a little bit, pay attention to that, and continue to work towards that on the following week. We love continuous improvement in food and manufacturing specifically, but food in general, there's just something about the process of it and making sure that it's consistent. And so this is what we're doing right here. It's creating a habit of paying attention, focusing on one thing, and then continuing to reinforce that. Yeah, I love that. I love that because that second week is really making it intentional, right? Intentionally focused on something and shifting your behavior based off of that awareness you kind of gained from the first week. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. And of course, taking the pressure paradox assessment to kind of get tapped in and to learn a little bit more about how you show up as a leader. One hundred percent. Thank you so much. Yes. Yes. Well, I have enjoyed having this conversation with you and, you know, just hearing your perspective on leadership, on how people show up in this space, how people show up in in manufacturing. Right. Like you said, it's fast paced. It's everything is always urgent. We're pulled into things fast. How are we creating these moments where you can, I like that too, like separate from yourself, have this one degree of separation to understand how are you building your mindset? How are you shifting? How are you reflecting? And then take an action, right? Take an action from that. So, you know, if this conversation, if you're out listening, whether live or on our podcast, if this conversation resonated with you and you're like, yeah, I need to, I'm going to do something different. Um, or you recognize yourself, even in the stories that Marilyn said, you know, we have a place for you to start. So download our culture change starts with me at catalystfoodleaders.com. I'll put that in the show notes as well. It really takes a look at leaders first, right? Who am I as a leader? How does that impact culture? We want you to dive deeper into Maryland's free pressure paradox assessment that's on her website. Again, we'll link it, but it's MarilynRosaConsulting.com. Check that out. And again, dive deep into the type of leader that you are showing up in your space and think about how do I want to shift to be that intentional leader? Because we know, right, culture does not change because it's You know, it's like this serendipitous, magical thing that just going to shift over time. It actually takes intention. And so you have to show up differently as as a leader because we know culture doesn't change until leaders do. And with that, Marilyn, thank you so much for being on Real Talk today. This has just been an insightful conversation, even for myself. So I know our audience is like taking notes over. over there because I love the things that you brought up and how you related it to the work that you're doing and even your background. I don't think we meet a lot of people who have HR experience, manufacturing experience, clinical psychology experience. Your experience is something that is different and unique and also helps bring leaders to the places that they need to be in order for us to move culture forward. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Tia. It's been a pleasure. And with that, we will see everyone next week or you will hear us next week if you're listening to our podcast. Everyone enjoy the rest of the week. Bye, everyone.
