Hello everyone, and welcome to Real Talk by Catalyst Food Leaders, where we have honest conversations to lead people forward in food. And I'm Jill, and typically I have Tia Glaive, my co-host here with us, but she is gone today. But we do have our very special guest, Brianna Lorenzo, for today's episode, which is, she didn't wait for permission. What the next generation of food safety leaders is actually thinking. Brianna, I am so glad to have you here because I was thinking back that we met, was it three IAFPs ago? Wow, I think so. And Tia and you had been on a PDG together. And I knew, when I met you, the energy that you bring. is incredible. Like I love every time we connect and I love hearing you share ideas and perspectives. So I know it's like, why has it been three years since we had that feeling and like getting you on the show, but we definitely want the audience to hear from you. And I think it's so important because everybody has a story of how you got it to food. And I love that you came from a different industry, but you are here and you are leading and you are leading with presence. You're making a difference and you're involved. And I think a lot of times that's people have questions about like, how do you do those things? And what have you run into? And I think especially to me, like we just talked about, you really represent what I see as the next generation of food safety professionals coming through for leading. And I think it's so important that we elevate your voice and make sure that there's connection as the industry is evolving, because that is the way we get better together. And, you know, loving that you're here to share that today. So welcome and thank you for being here. Thank you, Jill. Well, it's an honor and thanks for wanting to listen to my story. And I know it has been three years and before that, yes, T and I were on a PDG together at IFP. However, we met in line at a networking event for like both of our first IFPs back in Louisville. So I'm very thankful for that fateful moment where we spent a fun night together and then became friends and leaders and have kept in touch ever since. And then you were a natural progression of that friendship. So I'm so happy to be here today. Well, good. I am really, like I said, I am excited to share, share you with our audience. And I know we want to talk a little bit about like, you know, even your background. So I'm going to, you know, even kick it off with, you know, you, you didn't actually start off in food. you came from a different area so can you just tell us a little bit more about like your journey here and was there a certain moment where food safety clicked and you knew that was an area that you wanted to be in as you moved through your career yeah i know it's interesting when we all like tell our stories right there's like the resume version and then there's like what actually happened um so if i think back to even in high school, what I was focusing my discipline on, it was always science and medicine, science and medicine. Wanted to be a doctor. I miss medicine sometimes, but not too much. But it's interesting how life just kind of, things fall into place and find yourself in an industry that ends up becoming your passion and it's not something you could have ever planned. So I started with a very strong scientific foundation through my education system all the way up to university. And when I got my first job, it was in a clinical oncology lab at Mount Sinai in Manhattan. And I knew nothing about clinical oncology that like, truthfully, my first job was very much like I just sold myself. And I remember to this day, my director, she kind of dismissed me in my interview. She very much was just like, I don't really know why you're qualified for this job. Like you don't, you didn't even take a lot of relevant coursework. You're not a lab technologist by trade. There's like an actual degree for that and a certification and all of that. So I walked out of there and I was like, well, that didn't feel good. And I just kind of looked back and, and thought about like, well, what have I been told since day one from the, the women in my life, like where do we stand when it comes to like moments like this? And it's to advocate for yourself and to feel empowered. And I was like, well, I know I know my science really well. So I went back upstairs into the lab and I looked at her and I said, I might not know what you need me to know, but I'm a fast learner and I will be dedicated to you. Whatever you want to teach me, I will learn and you will not have someone with my passion nor my integrity. So if that means more to you than textbook information, then I'm here for it. And she just looked at me and was like, okay, you know what? Yeah, let's do it. So I was like, okay, great. And I was in that lab for like close to five years. Um, Yeah, it was great. And she was amazing. To this day, even colleagues of mine that have kept in touch, we all were like, wow, that was a brutal experience. But if we didn't have that experience, it didn't lay the foundation for who we were as leaders, as educators, as scientists, truthfully. She was a force. I thank that experience all the time. Oh, wow. What an introduction. And it also really highlights, like when I said we met and you had this energy, like I hear that story and I think, yes, that is Brianna energy. I was so young too. I mean, I graduated my, my like last year of college, I graduated, I was twenty one. So I turned twenty to my first year of work. So everyone kind of just probably looked at me like, who's this? She doesn't really know too much. She's not experienced. And a lot of the conversations I had throughout my first couple of roles was it's eventually going to be someone's first job always. And it's our role as leaders to give them the tools and the opportunity to succeed. So there's a lot of universities who do theory and practice well. My university did that exceedingly well. And we all joke as friends from college that we were way more prepared the real world than some of our friends from high school who went to different universities just because of of how our curriculum was designed and it was very project based so you were forced to work together as a team whether within your discipline or interdisciplinary very early on and see some challenges and figure out like lots of problem solving lots of problem solving And that's the real life. Like that's real world. You get into a job and no one gives you a playbook and says, congratulations, you got this job. Now here's how to do it. That initiative, that drive, that passion, you do need to kind of figure out a little bit for yourself. So I will say I, I kind of took that narrative as part of my foundation for my first couple of roles in biotech and I fell into food safety. I will honestly say that. So, um, My family has a generational family owned and operated company out of New Jersey. Um, it was my grandfather's and, and now my father, you know, runs it. And I was in a biotech at a startup. I think, yeah, I was at my, my startup role at a company based in Milan, which was really fun. Um, that company was also an adventure because I am Italian of Italian heritage. And I speak enough Italian to be dangerous, but not enough to be fluent. And one of the first roles that I had, I was over in Milan. They were just like, oh, good. Here are all of our SOPs. Can you translate them to English? And I laughed and I was like, maybe. OK. And then I went back to New York and did the whole thing. And while I was there, I was like, you know what? I really just need to take my MCAT. Let me study for medical school admissions. Let me go through it. And at the time, BISMA had just started getting implemented, like really implemented, not just like the law being signed, but it was actually being enforced. So I got a call from my dad and he loves this story because he laughs every time, but he's like, hey, I have to build a whole new food safety training program. I was like, great, good luck. Like, I hope that goes well for you, right? For you. And he, he's like a PCQI. He taught him like he got all everything he needed to get done with like HACCP and all of that. And, um, he was like, no, I want you to build it for me. I was like, I know nothing about food safety. He was like, yeah, but you're an educator. I was like, no, I'm not. That's mom. And like my sister, he was like, no, but you've been training. like throughout all my roles at the hospital and different biotechs, like it ended up being my job to be the onboarder. And then I trained a lot of like pathology residents who would rotate through these clinical labs as part of their board fulfillment. And then I would take them on a journey of following one of our patients as an interesting case. And we would present it at tumor boards or we presented in grand rounds. So as a lab technologist, I got to sit in those conversations and be part of managing the data, managing the narrative. And like, there's a big piece of clinical laboratory medicine that is part of your, your clinical experience as a patient that not a lot of people know about. So that was really cool to get to like a free medical education in that, in that sense. So I took that experience. And when I'm listening to my dad say like, Hey, I need this. I'm like, all right, I guess I can kind of the same. I mean, blood. pathogens, tumors, food, you're just regulating something different. But like the general concept from a compliance and a regulatory standpoint is probably similar. So I started at his plant part-time and honestly, I just dove straight into food safety. Like let's read your programs and then let's see what happens on the floor. but I also developed relationships with those FSIS inspectors from the beginning. I wasn't just someone's daughter like fulfilling a need and then maybe it's like a part-time temporary role and lots of family and family owned businesses that just kind of rotate through. I really wanted to own what I was building. It's a gift and a curse. Like I really probably shouldn't do everything at like a hundred and twenty five percent. There's probably times and places for it, but I kind of looked at it and I said, no, we're going to build this according to this new regulation that's being enforced. Let's make it awesome. And part of what I tried to build was taking the knowledge from the FSIS inspectors. And I would I would go into their office and I'd say, hey, I don't really understand what nine CFR for seventeen is asking for. Do you mind walking me through it through your eyes? Let's go out onto the floor and walk it. And they're like, yeah, okay, kid, whatever you need. And to this day, I still call some of them. In my life, wherever food has taken me, those inspectors from that circuit, they've just become amazing partners and educators for me and my career. And they all know that, because I sing their praises frequently. But I will say that was a gift that not a lot of people take advantage of. They are there to enforce. but they're also real humans seeing what we're doing every single day. And to use them as a resource instead of just looking at them as a regulator is something that I'm not sure a lot of people lean into, but it definitely has helped me leverage that live in the gray where at a senior manager, director level, you need to be that voice that can speak to an associate, speak to a colleague, speak to a VP and speak to a regulator. And you've got to figure out what voice you're going to use when you have all those conversations. So I was very thankful to have that experience early on. And I stayed at that company for close to five years. And I really enjoy being challenged. And the food industry is really good at giving us those challenges every single day. They never fail on that. They never fail. And I just really enjoyed learning more about the industry. So what was cool about the family business is whatever the need was, we tried to fulfill it, which was great because it wasn't the same day every day. But when I thought about like, wow, I really like this. I get to create, I get to lead, I get to educate and I get to use science. Okay. This is kind of cool. Let me hang out here for a while. And I started to explore other opportunities that would allow me to be more well-rounded in the field and teach me more than just what the family business was teaching me. So that's kind of how I fell into some of my other roles. That is incredible. when I think about coming from a medical field. And we've heard other people talk about, they were planning to go to med school or something in medicine and then kind of fell into food safety because of the strong science background. But I love how you also talked about this preparation for project work and working together and being an educator. And how do you, how do you come into this space? Because there's a lot always happening right before we even jumped on, we were talking about firefighting and there's always something new happening, but how, how can you stand in this space? It's still like make a difference and learn because it is so complex. It is. And I think the light bulb for me in terms of, How did I know that food safety was something that was going to continue to like feed that hunger? No pun intended. I know we're in the food industry, but genuinely feed that hunger for challenges and that passion can be used every single day. And it really was the connections with the younger generation or even some of my direct reports and just seeing their light bulbs go off. So teaching in a different way than like how a traditional educator might have that feeling working in a classroom environment, you really are working in more of a field-based environment. And something that comes very natural to me is problem solving and looking at the big picture. Like even as smallest asks come up i'm thinking like okay well how is this solve going to evolve nine months from now like my brain automatically goes there so how do you teach someone how to think like that how do you teach someone to have foresight that's so intuitive right it's something that it's so intangible for some people so that was fun for me to say like okay well i look at this and this is the scenario that we're seeing and we could solve for a Now it's satisfied what's happening right now. But if we add some layers now, look what happens. Now, where does it go? Right. Yes. You know, just yesterday I was talking with someone about like, how do you get that experience when you aren't able to have the experience? Because right. If everything goes well. which we know in food, that happens many times, but there's also times it doesn't. But as you think about preparing for that next level of thinking, that next level of leadership, that having that type of thought process can help you get there without having to have the direct experience. Nobody wants to be like, oh, you have to be in a recall to know recall experience. That's not the way we want people to have to have that experience and learn that thinking. So I think what I hear you talking about is you've kind of, you have this natural gift to kind of not only yourself use that type of model, but also bringing people along to think in that way and move in that direction so they can start formulating possibilities and exploring that. Yeah. And also it's about awareness, right? So you might be in that scenario, but you're so deep into oh my gosh this issue needs to be solved right now and you're not looking at the big picture but to have a leader come in and say hi we're going to solve this problem but take a step back and look at this like physically stop you from going down like a rabbit hole and just saying look at look at what this is look at what we're being asked to do look at how we can you know Think about other stakeholders outside of QA, like who needs to problem solve with us. And a lot of times that's really all it takes because as scientists, we're really good at being binary, right? It's either black or white. It's in compliance or it's out of compliance. And where I've seen leadership be successful is learning how to live in the gray in a very strategic way while still assessing risk. And that's a hard thing to teach, right? Because when you're, when people watch you make decisions, you're like, well, hold on. How did you get there? If the compliance answer would be something else. Well, yeah, no, that would bring us into compliance, but how is it going to make that individual feel? Are they going to feel empowered? Are they going to feel defeated? They're going to feel defeated unless it's putting the brand at risk or the food at risk or a consumer at risk. let's talk about how we can still be in compliance, but maybe also have a teachable moment. Yeah. You know, you've hit on something that that living in the gray can be really challenging. And especially when in most roles we start as individual contributors and then move. And so taking this model and applying that can help people kind of move through that. Um, It kind of makes me think about, like, as you think about, you know, where there's people like where they're at today, but even thinking about kind of this, you know, this generation that you are inheriting and you're moving and shaping, like what leadership looks like as we go forward. Knowing what you know now, what do you wish people ahead of you would have said or done to make this journey easier that they maybe just haven't named directly? A focus on communication. Different and not communication just in like speaking or communication and how to be a good technical writer or how to write a well crafted email, like different choices of communication based on your audience. It's it's something that I learned on the job. And it's also because of my personality. I think that I kind of evolved a little bit naturally in terms of like how to be a good communicator as a leader. And we still learn. I mean, I'm learning every single day, regardless of who you interact with. You learn something from when you walk away from a conversation. And sometimes I'll take certain conversations that either I overhear or I'm a part of, and I'll say, hmm, I liked that. I'm gonna use that. And the next time I have this similar scenario. But something that is not taught is how to approach a communication strategy without like laying out like an SOP, right? And when you're newer in your role, it's easy to say like, well, someone's asking for X, so I'm just gonna satisfy X. And that's fine. fulfilling the ask and you're doing the task and that's great. But are you also building a relationship? Are you building trust? Are you building that confidence at the same time? And that comes across in your delivery. It comes across in your attitude. It comes across in your body language. And it also comes across in how technical you are communicating. So if you're talking to an entry-level associate about something like incredibly complex, that they have had no exposure to. They're probably going to stare at you and be like, they just said a lot of things about a lot of things, and I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that information. But if you take the same narrative and put it in a way that applies to what's being expected of them, now maybe they walk away from that conversation not only understanding what's being asked of them, but feeling good about it and saying, I know exactly what's being asked of me, and I know how to do that. I don't have any questions about it. So now they go and be confident and empowered. And now maybe that's shared with some of their colleagues and some of their coworkers and it kind of spreads. Cause it's really easy to correct, right? When you walk into a scenario, but take a step back and say, hmm, how can I assess what's needed here? And I think that is something that's taught, like not taught. I think it's something that's experienced. That's, that's a fantastic way to approach it. And I'm curious, like, is there something even, you know, recently or just in the past that, that you can think of where you did tailor it specifically for a frontline team member versus, you know, another space and just as an example for the audience, like how, how did you do that? And what was, what was the messaging? Um, so many choices I can, um, I would say training. Just basic food safety training satisfying a need, whether it be for an audit requirement or regulatory requirement. Sometimes it's as simple as let's just all get in a room and talk about what needs to be talked about instead of it being this like formal computer-based training and we figure out the learning platform and the competency questions. And we love that and there's a time and a place for it, but sometimes just get people on the floor and talk. In the language they understand. So that was a really big moment working in a manufacturing environment where a lot of the frontline workers wasn't, English was not their first language. So my food safety Spanish became really great. You got really good at it. And there were moments where I'd be like, Oh, that was not a Spanish verb. That was an Italian verb. Okay. But I, and sometimes, you know, your associates would just look back at you and be like, we get it, but you said it wrong. Right. But then, Hey, Hey, at least you tried. Um, but I would say like being present, communicating physically, using your words, to a group of team members rather than sending an email or standing in front of a classroom, like being relevant, especially like for the frontline workers at a manufacturing location, like showing up on the floor and spending the day with them, sometimes just observing, sitting back, saying nothing, and then asking them, hey, can you show me how you do that? Instead of, don't do it this way. Right? There's a different, same, you can get to the same outcome, but different experience. So I'd say there's a lot of little moments where I chose to be on the floor and educating instead of waiting for the perfect moment in a classroom. Yeah. You know, I think that really brings in kind of that human side of, of our roles. And as we think about so much conversation these days about AI and what AI will take over and do, and I mean, Yes, yes, it will still. But I think we've even started moving in this direction of relying on technology for these human interactions. And I think that's also just the Jill soapbox now. But part of when we think about where our food safety culture is and some of the improvements we want, we've engaged in a lot of just pushing things out and having people sign or you've been trained. And taking those moments to be really human make a big difference. and shows that it matters i mean like whatever we're talking about matters and that like we care about you as humans enough to have this in-person conversation yeah and also make it fun so one of my favorite food safety trainings that i did early on was it wasn't it was a classroom-based training but it was jeopardy ah fun so i split you know, the group into two different groups. And this was kind of like the final culmination of their food safety training. And they didn't even realize they were getting food safety training up until this point, genuinely, because we were just having conversations on the floor. And then I would say, hey, you're going to need to know this later. And they're like, yeah, we know the SQF audit. And I was like, yeah, but also you're going to need to know this later. And when we did Jeopardy, I will tell you like a year after that Jeopardy game, people still came up to me and be like, hey, I know in the Federal Meat Inspection Act when that came out. And I was like, you do? And why do we care about it? They're like, well, that's why we're inspected by the USDA right now. I was like, you're absolutely right. And that was just like genuine conversations that little anecdotes in the hallways, walking across the street, like going to different areas of the plant where people would just find you and be like, hey, I just want you to know that like we had a couple of new hires today and I gave them like a pop quiz because that Jeopardy game was so fun. I remember all of that. I'm like, yeah, because you had fun while you were learning it. And it's something that, you know, when we were younger in our education process, you hear that from your teachers all the time. You have fun. You will most likely remember it. Like I can't tell you a lick of organic chemistry, right? But I can probably tell you a lot more about some of my labs and some of my other stuff because it was a little bit more practical, interactive. So yeah, if I had to take one thing away, it's make it fun, make it interactive and work on communication. Yeah, no, love that. Because it's true, right? There's plenty of studies that show when you have fun, and also even movement, like that's how as humans, we were actually designed to learn. I'm not sure how classroom settings ever got to be so rigid, because they certainly like don't align with that model. But here we are making things a little bit different. So yeah, that and also I feel like we're gonna start aging ourselves because I took one of my interns this year, I said, listen, I learned on a blackboard in engineering. Like there was no computers. Like we had multiple blackboards that went up and down and you couldn't, everybody would just swarm the front of the class at the end of the class to take pictures of the blackboard because we didn't want to forget about it. So I come from, I guess, that generation of that hybrid learning where Technology was first starting to get integrated, but it wasn't fully incorporated. So it was kind of a tool, but it was really just so we didn't have to handwrite things. And you can use like Google, but the library still was important. So I don't know. I don't know what the next generation is going to, it's going to be very interesting. I will tell you because they can look everything up. Right. At any moment. At any moment. Really fascinating. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. I mean, it's, it's actually a really interesting question. Cause you know, I think about like, what, what will food safety look like in three years and five years? What will the next generation of food safety professionals, like what were their, what will their tools be? What will it be like if you had to kind of project out like what you think where we're headed, like what, what do you think that will be? And what do you think it will take for us to get there? I think we have a large group of students who are really curious about how to use what they're learning in the classroom in industry. And I think we have some really good professors out there who are trying to make those connections. And it's going to take us as industry professionals to reach out to those food science, nutrition programs and say, how can I help? Genuinely, like I was last week, I was just at the North Carolina Food Defense Task Force. And one of the professors from NC State was presenting on like how to get industry more engaged as like mentors or shadow opportunities or just internships, co-ops, whatever it might be. And I signed up because I was like, yes, I need you all to not just graduate and say, now I'm going to apply to jobs and If you're in food science, maybe you're really more focused on like the formulation side of it, or maybe you're big into agriculture and that path is like a little bit more known. Right. But when it comes to food safety, there's not a lot of programs for food safety. Like I'm going to go learn about food safety in a classroom. And now I'm going to know exactly how to manage a recall. No. Yeah. It's not there. No, not there. So if I were to say like what it's going to look like three to five years from now, I think we're in a really pivotal moment where the voices of this leadership generation, we need to start focusing on how are we setting up the new graduates for success? What does that look like? Are our internship programs designed where we have proper outreach? Do they even know what your company does? Do they even know how to apply? to your schools do like is job fairs. Are those, do we need to focus on those? Is that how our, our new students going to be looking for those to be hired or is it going to be a little bit more of a digital solution? I don't know. Um, but I think the conversation needs to start with, Hey, this is what you could do with this, with this degree. And I think it might start with like guest lectures. So all of us who really like to talk, maybe we start seeing what the opportunities are with some of these amazing professors who are working so hard every day to like educate this next generation. And we say, hey, guess what? Like if you're going to do a part on food safety in your food science curriculum, Here are ten amazing leaders that I work with in the industry, and I think we could do a really fun series on reality, like what it looks like if you work in one of these companies. So I don't know. Stay tuned. I might have to come up with that on the spot right now, but I think it would be really great. No. Brianna, I think you're onto something there. How do you even have like a group that's like, we can offer this. I mean, just right in goodwill, like just providing that because one of the things that we hear a lot is especially as like the baby boomers, right? They're retiring, ten thousand people a day. And I know a lot of people are worried about the knowledge base, the experience that is going out the door. I agree, but I also think it also highlights that we haven't done enough to develop the next generation of people that we feel like there's perhaps this gap. And there's also this sense that the new generations coming in, like they wanna know everything. They wanna go from like, I worked here for a day till I'm like the VP, right? I think that that's how they are characterized. When I think what you've outlined here is really the challenge of thinking about We've been teaching our students to think a little bit differently and our kids and our new grads. And so we've asked them to be bigger thinkers. So when we also get them into a new role and we're like, here's the box that you play, that's really hard. Like we can really capture and build on this natural curiosity that they bring. And how do we do that without feeling threatened that they think that they need to take over? It's not that at all. It's really, they're just curious. And this really helps us prepare them for moving into these roles and seeing some of these gray areas and knowing how to navigate that sooner, because we do need to pass that along and we do need to bring people in and we do need new perspectives. So the more we can see that as. how we encourage and foster that will help us really build and be stronger as a professional group and as an industry yeah absolutely and i will say i mean i think our generation there's just kind of like a natural order of progression for a career and now this generation you can wake up tomorrow and say i'm gonna be an influencer i don't even know what that means Like I know I follow a whole bunch of them, but I don't know what it takes to do that. Right. But like everything is just at their fingertips. So then how do we take that convenience and build it into this industry in terms of everything we're working towards as an industry from traceability to recall compliance, to education, to culture, to technical expertise. I mean, I wish there were whole classes on sanitation in the real world. Because if I walk into a scenario and someone asks me to assess risk, I'm not showing up at nine AM. I'm gonna show up at midnight. I wanna watch third shift, right? Because that's where your root cause is going to start. So, I mean, and I think that's something that you learn on the job, right? That's something by being curious and understanding how all the different players, really contribute to success of a brand, a food product. What does that look like? Something I'm working on that I've done at multiple roles, but really understand the lifecycle of a product. That's a class. I would just love to understand how in academia we bridge some of those gaps with what we teach in the classroom to what's being asked of new hires. Yes. Setting them up so that when they come in, they've already had some, I don't want to say just peaks under the hood, but more so that they're ready and they can hit the ground running in a different way. Not only that, because us as leaders, if I had to look at my workload right now and if I had to onboard two new people, it would take me a year to do it correctly. Right. Because if anybody says that you can onboard somebody in the food safety space in three months, you're all kidding yourselves because you can't. I'm sorry. There will be gaps. And if you give them independence, like, yeah, maybe you can onboard like a QC in three months in a plant. Right. Because that has very finite expectations. But someone who's working in like QA and managing food safety management systems and looking at programs and how those programs are livable and how to write a proper program for a like gfsi scheme okay like if you come out of university and you are asked to be an sqf practitioner what does that mean what does that even look like right yes like if you haven't seen it before that's you know i always say that's kind of like even when you know the difference between i took a hassa course and now when you get in the real world and you're like i have to review a hassa plan or i have to create one from scratch that feels and looks very different. That is not something that's intuitive to many people. No. And you're looking at this piece of paper like, OK, hazard analysis, critical control, yeah, got it. And you go through all the steps, and then you live it. And you're like, oh, no, this is where, yup, mm-hmm, missed this big part. Yep, that's exactly why this risk wasn't controlled well. If it, you know, but again, that takes for me, I had so many amazing mentors in that technical space that I was able to say, tell me why this is wrong. Give me the hard truth. Genuinely, um, to the point I love telling a story because this woman is amazing and she's like my favorite person ever, but like being in a plant. meeting her as a mentor for the first time. She was a consultant that I worked with and I still have a very close relationship with her. And I showed up looking like I usually do. And I usually have my nails done, but not like fake nails. They're just painted. And she was like, you want, do you want what it takes to be successful in this? You need to be ugly. You need to have no nail polish on, no earrings, no nothing. You want to work in QC. This is what you need. Like I laugh about it because you take a step back and you're like, that was harsh. And then it's like, All right, but maybe it's a little true. Like maybe these are the things that are not, you're not setting a good example as a leader, right? Like being on the board, showing up with earrings and that kind of stuff. But you know, you get to hear, I always ask for the hard truth, like give it to me and I can take it. I'm a big girl, but also tell it to me real so I can learn from it. Yeah. And that maybe sounds funny, but those are things too that are really these moments of good self-awareness for leaders as well. Like when I show up, do I look like I'm ready to come out on the floor? Yep. Like if I do have my nails done or I have like jewelry on me or watch or whatever those things are, like what message am I sending people? Yes. So there's so much that we can learn together. And just once again, just having someone there who who brings that up for you to say, what do you tell me what you think people first think of when they see this? You kind of go from there. Yeah. I mean, I will say I try to do like a little bit of boot camp with some of like new new hires, like in a safe space where we're not giving them too much information. But I'll say where I learned the most was in a crisis. In one of my previous roles, I was hired to genuinely manage the crisis. The company just came out of a class one recall. They didn't have a head of food safety. They wanted to basically rebuild their entire QA team. And I said, great. What does that actually mean? Right. What does that mean to you? What does that look like? What does that mean to you? And you have to be firm but fair, confident but not egotistical, and direct without being rude. Yes. And the line between those things is different for everybody on the receiving end. Yes. And being from New Jersey is also, you know, because our level of directness is expected and welcomed. And then, you know, you go to the South and speak like that. And like, what is wrong with that? Yeah, you come to the Midwest and I would be like, oh, that wasn't very Midwestern-y nice. Correct. Correct. So, I mean, again, knowing your audience, understanding like exactly how to talk. But yeah, I mean, it just goes back to like, how are you, how are you educating? Um, I usually start my like food safety training to leaders with the top, like with the first sentence of, if you all don't think that you're educators and teachers, you're kidding yourselves because you, they like all of our associates every day will emulate what you present. So let's lead by example. Well, what does that mean? Cause we hear that all the time. So like, how are we driving food safety compliance? in a leadership role? How are we carrying ourselves with relative to food safety compliance as we're walking the floor, as we're walking the plant, as we're being advocates in a meeting? So it's hard. I mean, and that's how you're going to drive culture. Food safety needs to not be Oh, and also we need to do this because food safety says we do. Right. It's part of the thought process. It's second nature. It's just, we are protecting this product. So we are checking for these, you know, QC checkpoints because that's our process. Not because food safety needs us to. Yeah. The things we aspire to be, it's always interesting to look back. I can look back in history and I remember working at an organization where those questions didn't really come up that much. And people are like, why not? Why didn't they come ask food safety for their guidance on this or that? And I'm like, because it was just what we did. Yeah. Right. They didn't have to come ask us about how to protect the line during maintenance or how to do this or what this would be, because that was so part of just what we do. That it's just what we do. Oh, yeah. My favorite moment was when a category manager told like the whole receiving team, it's food safety's call. whether we accept or reject this. And I just remember being like, Oh yeah, we did it. Like everybody gets it. Like this is, you know, yes, we need this product, but. We've arrived. It's food safety's call. So I, you know, you feel you have a couple of moments in your career where you're like, okay, I, we are making a difference. We're we're everyone's getting it. So. Yes. And it's, I always say it's one step at a time. When I think about whether you've been leading for decades or you're an early leader in this area, like things happen one step at a time. Hopefully, I mean, even though we may say we would love to wave the magic wand and have it all happen at once, the reality is that it happens incrementally. And so sticking with it, staying in the place, doing the work, that's what makes a difference. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so Brianna, if For whoever's listening, if there was one or two things that you wish that the audience takes away today, regardless of where they are in their career, and you'd like them to think differently, what would that be? I would say be curious and don't be afraid to speak up. Your biggest tool that you have is your voice. And you want to be heard more than anything. And guess what? People want to listen. So next time you're sitting in a meeting or having a conversation with a peer or a manager and you're thinking about something, but you're not so confident yet, say it anyway. Because sometimes it's what everybody else is thinking. And other times it might be really obvious to you, but maybe that individual that you're communicating with hasn't thought about it yet. So if we lead with assumptions, then we're not gonna make any progress, but use your voice, speak up. Yeah, that is a powerful takeaway. Too often the things that we just know because we know others have no clue. And especially as we think about what the next generation is helping build and how do we help support and invite and advocate for them coming up in this industry to do that use their voice step in be the leaders that we that we need as we go forward to drive the whole industry yeah absolutely oh yes well you know what this has been fantastic and i'm sure every senior leader listening right now is wondering how do they recruit the next brianna and i hope that they are giving good thought to that um you know if if you are listening and you're like gosh this episode really sparked something for you whether you're you've been leading in this industry for decades or you are early in your career and you just want to have a conversation about like what does the next step look like we have a download called culture change starts with me at catalystfoodleaders.com under resources resource hub Go there, grab it. It's a great starting point for a leader who's already looking at yourself and like where you want to go. And if you want to know more, there's also a spot on our contact us page. Like let's have a conversation. It's not a sales pitch. It's just let's talk about where you are and help you come up with a game plan for where you want to go. Because one thing we've learned over these years and even in the conversation today is that leadership is not a one person show. Culture doesn't grow on its own. People don't grow on their own. takes intention. So thank you so much, Brianna, for being here, sharing your experience, giving us something different to think about. We're so glad that you were here with us today. Thank you, Jill. It was so great chatting with you. And anytime I get the opportunity to talk about this space and this industry, I mean, it's what wakes us up in the morning. So I appreciate it. Here we are. All right, everyone, that is today's Real Talk. And remember, culture doesn't change until leaders do. So we'll catch you next time. Bye bye.
