Hi, and welcome to this week's Real Talk. I am Jill, and Tia is out today, but you can see we have a very special guest, Taylor Clark from Ambarella Organics. Welcome, Taylor. Thank you so much for having me, Jill. Oh, my gosh. Are you kidding? I'm so happy to have you here. I was chuckling because we've known each other now for a few years, all around food, and we haven't had you on the show yet. Oh, I'm so happy to be here. We're so glad you're here. We're so glad you're here. and joining us. This usually gets released on Monday. So we are pre recording for those of you out there because this conversation is so important that we didn't want to be constrained by having to have it fit into that time slot. So thank you for being here. And if you do have questions, comments, we're still going to come out and capture those as this comes out. So Oh, great. Yes. And we'll send those to you too. So thank you for being here. Oh, gosh. Today is going to be a fantastic episode because we know that there are like thousands of small businesses right now that are sitting on a version of kind of the same question. Where do I even start when it comes to food safety? And I think it's not because people don't care, but it's because sometimes the resources that you that we find are built for companies that are much bigger or sometimes even much smaller. And I think the consultants that are available, like you know, we are knowledgeable and we're available, but we're also, sometimes we're not always right sized for the different size businesses and things don't fit budgets or they stress budgets. And I think every time small businesses go to research, you could come away feeling even more overwhelmed with where to start. Did that ever happen to you, Taylor? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, first of all, the reason that I met you wasn't because I was searching for you. It was because I was having a very transparent conversation with Angela Dodd of Females and Food about where we were heading with our business. And I had a little bit of concern for where I needed to be at with food safety. At that point, we had already built out our commercial kitchen. which that process in and of itself is so daunting, really not as user-friendly as it should be for small businesses, takes forever, it takes a ton of money. And then you get through all of that, you pass your city inspection and then you go, oh, but there's more, right? And so I think when we met because of Females in Food, I think I told you and Tia, like, I can't afford you guys. This all sounds great. It all sounds like what I need to be doing. I'm walking the walk in terms of daily practices of food safety. Whether I'm documenting that properly or not is a different thing, right? But this is what I'm capable of right now. And you and Tia thankfully said, let's just bite off a piece each month. Let's work towards it. And that was so refreshing to me. Um, just to kind of like get started and then it didn't feel so daunting, but I think in general, it was not something I necessarily knew I needed until I was in it. Um, and yeah, you get thrown into it the moment you say I'm going to manufacture. Yeah. Yeah, and for anybody out there listening, I have to tell you, when we'd been to Taylor, the first time we came to your facility and saw it, and I was like, I would totally eat off your floor. I don't say that in all the places. I mean, that's how clean your place is. So when we think about how well you're doing, it has been so much fun to watch you build Ambarella Organics into all these spaces. And I know the journey hasn't always been easy, but know just the way that you've that you do it and you've been careful but resourceful and you know parts like food safety don't have a great road map so where i want to start because as we're jumping in i'm like we should make sure people know a little bit about you and ambarella do you mind like just sharing a little bit with the audience about who you are and how how we got to be here today yes yeah so ten years ago my husband brennan and i founded umbrella organics This was an idea that he had because he grew up gardening with his grandmother and he wanted a way for people to get into the garden and have a similar experience that he had gardening with his grandma. And so the vehicle for that was a lollipop and a lollipop that you could devour and then plant the biodegradable stick into soil. It would decompose and grow. And so he shared this idea with me and I thought it was amazing and that we should figure out how to build a business. And at that time, the intention was not to go after Target, nor was it to live off this company. It was really just like, okay, this is a great idea. Let's see if we can build it and bring it to life. So, you know, we did everything ourselves from building a website in bed to coming up with a name, Ambarella, the first flower to move from water to land, which felt like very symbolic. So there was a lot of intentionality and thought into everything, you know, recipes that included plants and flowers that you then would go on to grow, packaging that was, that wasn't just like pops wrapped and thrown into a plastic bag sold in bulk, but like more upscale, giftable, there for those special moments in your life where you're celebrating a baby, a wedding, Mother's Day, Earth Day, all of those things. And so in a way, we like made it harder on ourselves because it was so important for us to do things differently. We also like were knowledgeable enough to understand that like we didn't want to put artificial dyes in candy. Ten years ago, we would have conversations with friends. Yeah. Wow. Who had no idea that that was what they were consuming. They were like yellow, white, red, whatever those numbers are, which I don't even know off the top of my head because I don't consume them. They were surprised. And we said, yes, because we're trying to be sustainable and plant-based, like why would we put junk into our lollipops? Yeah. So that was like kind of the vision and gosh, it's just like grown into something that we never could have anticipated. And the reason that we got thrown into manufacturing was really not by choice. It was, we always intended to like, let's, let's build brand, let's market, let's sell like, gosh, that's enough for two people. Right. And. we had a co-packer, but they went out of business. And overnight, we were forced to basically survive and figure out how to bring it in-house or close the company. And it really was like a pivotal moment for us. And I think when you start the world of like, I'm going to manufacture the goods that I'm selling, your business drastically changes because you're fully integrated and responsible for all parts. But It is hard to do that and yet wonderful because you have ultimate control of your goods. JENNY GUY- There's so much in that story. And I have to put the command. That's something that will be a whole other episode in itself. But I mean, there's so many shifts in there from, like you said, from kind of like what you originally thought it would be to working with the command to like, here it is. We're doing this. And as a side note, I do want to let people know because this is airing in June, which where I live in Minnesota, it's graduation party season. Like these are fantastic gifts for graduations, too. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of you for growing all of these years. It's fantastic. So, yes, I love giving those away as gifts. And Taylor, you know, even people that come through our alumni like boot camp. I mean, spoiler alert, but you'll get a little gift from Ambarella. We're so proud to be included for those special moments. We love it. So, you know, even as you describe that transition, it seems, you know, just knowing more, you know, since we've worked together, there's these moments, especially when that falls in your lap and you go even from local inspection to even more. I think even like you said, there's so much more than just that, that people will be looking for. Do you remember the moment when you were like, wow, we need more when it comes to food safety or even in general? I think the moment was when retailers would ask for something and I would go, what is that? And I would love to tell people that retailers will work with you and that they will be patient and wait for you to obtain whatever is needed. For example, a third party audit. But the truth is, is that if you don't have it in today's climate, it's just a pass. They won't necessarily say that to you, but they are under such extreme pressure to bring in brands that are performing and have margin constraints. And if you aren't able to fulfill what they're looking for, they will move on. And I'm saying that as a brand who has a patented product that no one else can do what we're doing, right? And still... it's just not worth their time and effort. And I have had so many great conversations and, and if we did not have something, it felt like the conversation was lost and you can try to go back to them and say that you have it and they might be a new buyer. So it's just like, you want to try to prepare yourself in all ways for success. And that has to be a part of the, of the equation. So when you talk about that, I wonder, did it feel like it was a, like, I think of Kano model, like an unexpected expectation, or was it something that if you had it, was it, was it potentially like a differentiator when they were selecting? Like we can either go with you or we can go with this other business. It was like, this is our requirement. If you don't have it, then there's nothing I can do. These aren't my rules. These are the overarching rules. And we're talking about bigger retailers. When, ten years ago, when we first started selling in to large retail, it was like Nordstrom, Macy's, Terrain, owned by Anthropologie. Urban Outfitters, these are not food first stores. These are clothing retail first stores. Their team is really not knowledgeable about food safety. How can you expect them to be? So they are not even looking for documentation because they don't know that they're supposed to be until maybe someone comes to them and says like, hey, for these food brands, we need yada, yada, yada. And then they request it, right? And so this is not to say that these places are like doing a poor job. It's just that unfortunately, there's just not enough education for everyone, consumers, buyers, like about what is supposed to be going on. And so I think for that reason, we hadn't had a lot of these questions until we started having conversations with like one eight hundred flowers. Jill, do you remember this? Yeah. Or like Harry and David, which I know they're owned. you know, they're owned by the same company, but even Target, you know, when Target came to us and we went through our food safety audit, there were certain things that they asked for. And then I turned around to you and said, like, do we have these things? Right. We had done so much work. And then you were like, yes, here is the documentation. So a lot of what we had been working on, I was able to, like, turn around and share with them. And So, so yeah, I think it just depends on like on who you're working with, but ultimately we're just living in a world where you don't want to lose a buy. You don't want to do anything to lose the buy. And so if you want to be ready for that moment. Yeah. Yeah. It's not enough to just like have an amazing product anymore. It really isn't or to meet their margin. So those are the requirements, which no one's going to tell you until you're in the conversation. There's not a spreadsheet that says, these are the retailers that require third-party audits. Yes, if I'm having a conversation with you, you're knowledgeable because you've worked with other brands. And I can say to you, hey, I'm entertaining Walmart. What does Walmart need? And you can say, well, from my experience, they need XYZ. Let's work towards it. So I mean, these are important conversations to have with your food safety team as you start to reach for what's next. But because Ambarella was a self-funded brand, where opportunities kind of came to us and then we had to figure it out. we weren't having those conversations. I mean, we weren't even auditing packaging because I didn't know that that was supposed to occur. Right. We knew that we were using like nutritional facts that were correct from our chemist. Right. We were, we were making sure that like our ingredients were cited correctly. Like, um, we knew certain things, but we didn't know others like font is important or like where the information is organized is important. I mean, this is a whole world that a founder who doesn't come from a food safety background is not expected to know. That's why you need good people to advise you. But where do you find those people and can you afford them, right? Yes. Yeah, well, and I know, you know, we talked about, like, part of how we came together was the conversation with Angela. And I don't, I guess I've never asked you, like, who else did you reach out to? Or, you know, when you started looking for resources, like, was there other help? And was it what you... No. Recommendations are by far the most important thing because there's just, I mean, we, we already had, I didn't turn around and, you know, say to our chemist, like, Hey, I'm interviewing Jill and Tia. Like, do you recommend, give me like four other recommendations. I just personally spoke to you guys, loved you guys and was honest with you that like, I don't think I can afford this. I don't think I can do this. What do you think? And you guys helped me figure it out. So those are the moments that are worth everything. I don't need to, you know, talk to four other people and have those conversations to figure out who is the best. It was just very clear. And we have continued. I recently just emailed Tia. I was like, hey, I think I have another packaging thing that I need you to audit. And we talked through that. So it's just really wonderful to have you two on our team for moments that appear because it's not like they go away. As you continue to grow, there's just different questions that come up. Yeah, there's always something I think that's an important part because Even if there's this feeling, did you ever feel the pressure of like, oh my gosh, I have to have everything? Yeah. I still do. And I feel like all the paranoia of when health department shows up, I'm like, God, you don't ever want to be doing something wrong, right? No. No, but there's so much. Even in whether it's small or big businesses, I think there's always this path of do we have everything and the continuous improvement around it. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean, I hope our goal is always to be reassuring. Where you are is where you are. And let's work from there and make the improvements that we can that work for the business, because it has to work for the business. And to go forward. Otherwise, you know, if it seems unattainable, then then it does. Other businesses would potentially miss out on the opportunity to have to get into different markets or different places. So I think that's a really important part that people sometimes forget. It's not an all or nothing. There's there's stages. Yeah. I think we need to do more to support small business though, because if the, if the rules are the same overarching rules, like that does not make sense. You know, one of the roles that you two taught me was that the roll up door needs to be cleaned. You know, it's like, what's the roll up door. That's not even in my kitchen. Like we're supposed to climb up on a ladder and clean all of like the bits and pieces and, and you know, there's cleaning crews that come out and do that stuff, but it's something that is on a spreadsheet that needs to be checked. And I'm pretty sure that's a monthly or a bi-monthly to do, right? And so, yeah, there is so much. And I think at the local level in Orange County, I was just listening to Katrina Foley, of the fifth district. She's the, she's the supervisor for the fifth district. And I was just listening to her last night, talk about how for small businesses, we're making permitting faster and like information around how to build out commercial kitchens and, and all of that, just like more transparent in terms of pricing, in terms of lead time, spreadsheets, like all of that. That's wonderful. Because when we did our build out, it felt like there was, those resources were not there. You just kind of jump in and say, I hope I can figure this out, right? Yeah. So I think accessibility for small businesses is super important. Yeah. That's a really good point, because I think that's the other part, even as we started the show. I mean, I've searched online. If I'm a new business, where would I find things? And there's so many things. And some are similar. Some are different. There's all this stuff out there. Yeah. And I think it's, I don't know, I get choice overload where I'm like, which one do I go with? Or where, where does that take me? And so looking at places where we can have, um, like just be better resource. So instead of someone having to go out and find things all over, like how do we bring it together? So you can come to one, one place and have the support that you need. You know, and with that, you and I've talked about this in one of the things, cause we're a small business too. is we're always looking at how are we spending our time and how are we spending our money? Because the reality is there's just a pie that's available to us. Even as you think about growing and even around food safety, what did you know you had to protect even if it was hard? Oh, I mean, I think once you have the responsibility of a commercial kitchen and you're manufacturing goods, it's just important to make sure that the product that's ending up with the consumer is as safe as possible. And. I mean, I have had numerous times where I've purchased a big brand from a large store and have found like plastic, metal, like just like, you know, it's not just like a hair. It's like actually like parts from a machine, right, that is in your product. And it's frightened me, especially as a mom of two now. because the choking hazard is so like real at this age um and so anyways i it reminds you when you have a commercial kitchen of like the huge responsibility that you have for consumers and thankfully with hard candy because you're heating to three hundred degrees like there's very little that survives past that point like in terms of like mold and growth and all of that even like our best if used by is is a year right but most of that is because the product just starts to like crystallize because it's candy not because it actually is like harmful or anything but I think just like making sure that we are clean and that we have a pest control program in place like Even in months that we are slower, summer months are slower for us. There's less holidays. We don't cut costs financially to lower our pest control for those months because that would be better for our profit and loss. We go, yeah, pests are here all the time. And our neighbors don't need to have pest control programs because they're not food businesses. And so we have to take care of essentially the whole business park. Because you have to protect what's on the outside before you can protect what's on the inside. And so those are areas that it would be easy to cut costs that we don't. And yes, at times we're like, gosh, we're exhausted. There's been a huge run. We've been producing and we don't want to do a full clean tonight. And still- the full clean is handled after every shift so that when you enter the next day, you are starting from a place of perfection. And it's never, it's never to like this, the best standards that you want. It's just impossible because you have other people working for you. And, but it's, it's important that there is a checklist and that everyone understands like the three compartment sink, the hand, hand washing process, like, how to properly clean tables, how to mop floors. I mean, this stuff is simple and it needs to be followed. And sometimes my husband will like laugh at me because of like the food safety person that you have taught me to become, right? But I love it. I listen to you and I'm so proud, Taylor, because it is the foundational pieces. Yeah. Keeping things clean and pests, right? Keeping them out like hand in hand. And that those foundational pieces are, what make companies I mean honestly that's that's the culture like you can tell companies that that hasn't been a focus and you see the struggles that come up because of other things that factor in look the reality is is that if you are not if you don't have a little bit of OCD and you Right. And you can't look at your kitchen that way, then hire someone to do it. Hire someone to be that person for your team because everyone needs a team with that person. Yes, who is. Who cares? If it wasn't clean enough. And I'm pulling out the little brush to get behind there because that's how it works. Exactly. And who's efficient? You can still be efficient. You still have to find, like you said, it has to be sustainable for your business. It has to work for your business. So there's ways to be more efficient with this whole process. But yeah, it really is just like the foundation. And if you can't do it, you should have a co-packer that does it. Like if you can't figure out a way to make it financially possible, then you should pass the baton. And if you are not someone, if you know that that's not your strength, when you walk into a kitchen to see the flaws, be the person that sees the flaws and that wants to like improve them. And if you can't be that person, then hire someone to do it. Yeah, because we all have strengths. So play into where you were your strength. And then, yep, that's why there's there's other people who are like, I nerd out over that. So yeah, support people. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so with that, right, I think sometimes in the food safety world, like we're talking about this as we were getting ready for the show, there's things that like we don't really say out loud, or that it feels like nobody maybe would have told us. as a small business owner, like, is there something that you wish people would have just told you more directly about this food safety journey? I guess I wish like we were talking about equipping small businesses with like all the information before you start. But at the same time, I think if I had a spreadsheet of these are all the costs, this is how long it takes to build out manufacturing, like this is what it really takes. I don't know if I would have done it. And then if there was like a backside to that sheet that said like, okay, you've passed all of that. Now here are the food safety requirements. These are all the – this is like the next step. And this doesn't just like, you don't do it and then it's done. It's like a, it's a daily, weekly, monthly task. It would have been daunting, but I'm really fortunate that so much of my journey as a founder has been naive. Because that has helped me. It has completely helped me. That is our strength here at Ambarella is that when we built this business, we didn't build it with business degrees. We didn't build it as people who came from food and beverage. We built it as I was a journalist. My husband is a surfer who is a sustainability guru who was like working a sales job that was unfulfilling, but that was just present at that time in his life, right? And just like a deep thinker of like I have all these ideas, right, to build and create things. And so we came at it from like more of a place of passion. And we built it differently. And we continue to do that. And so, yeah, I think unfortunately when you know what it really takes to run a business, when you know what it takes to build out manufacturing and build out food safety, you're kind of like, ugh. I don't know, do I want to do it? But I'm grateful that we're here. And I think that we just need to continue to make sure that we are as efficient with our time and our resources being self-funded as possible. And a lot of that is just like streamlining your process. Yeah. No, I love that because it's almost like I love that you talk about if you would have known more, then it might have been a little daunting to get in. It feels like parenting. We all know parenting is going to be hard. And then you're in it and you're like, whoa. Yeah. There's the part of so hard and the other part of I can't imagine life without this. Yeah. And it's interesting because I feel like a lot of who I am is, like, a researcher, you know, because I come from the world of journalism and just curiosity and asking a lot of questions. And yet, like, I didn't get so far ahead of myself. I really was, like, in the day of, like, okay, we're building something. What are the needs of today? What are the needs of tomorrow? And we still kind of, like, run our business that way, which might be different than most people. We, of course, like, have longer-term goals for moving forward, but – It really is like, what are the day-to-day needs for the business and how can we make things better today? And so, yeah, I think also building out manufacturing in Southern California is challenging. There are not a lot of food brands here. And I think a lot of food brands have left the state because of many reasons. And I think that if we outgrow this current space that we're in, that we likely will look to move out of space and out of state. And then with that space, we will have all of this knowledge of manufacturing and food safety. So it's tough to say that we won't do it again. And we will set up the kitchen flow differently. And there's plenty of things that are values that we have gained. But yeah, it's tricky. I think I love the honesty and I love the experience that people share, but so much has to be lived and learned. And like your share with me prior to moving through this myself might not have been completely relevant because you're in a different state. And maybe you had never worked with a candy brand. You had worked with all these other brands that were slightly different in terms of process. So... Yeah. I don't know. I love when people are honest and frank and I encourage it, but some of it's just must be lived. Yeah. I think it comes back to that. Like you're not, you were only ready for where we sometimes where we are right now or a little bit past. And that's right. Right. So even if we knew the whole picture, if we're not ready for it, we can't absorb it to really truly understand what does that mean to us? Right. So even if that is fully available, it's, may not always add value. Yeah. Yeah, okay. There's a lot. So yeah, going through all of that, in one of the things, with all the work you've done, and the values you've laid, and this amazing brand and product that you've built. Thank you. Because you've done a lot of work. I mean, we know that because we've done some of the work with you, even though you're the one doing all the work. But how does it feel now when you walk into a conversation with a buyer and know, like knowing what you know and having the things in place that you have so that you know you're ready when they're asking questions? Yeah, you definitely approach conversations from a higher level. once you've done the work. I think I also shared this with you when we were visiting recently. We just did a private label project, our first, and it's actually a non-seeded stick. And it's for an amazing garden up north in California. And as we were building out the flavors and the ingredients and doing a lot of advising beyond just pouring lollipops, there was a conversation about packaging and regulations. And I was like, God, I am so knowledgeable about this world that I never was knowledgeable about before. And also how interesting is it to work with people who are very smart and yet don't know, like there was, they had hired people to build out their branding, but these people had no knowledge of food safety and It's interesting because it's like, I think maybe there's part of like graphic design that like needs the second skill set of like understanding. Like even my graphic designer who doesn't come from a food world, like she's so knowledgeable about food safety because the trickle down effect, right? Everyone gets to learn about the experience. And then I'm sure she's going to her local grocery store. Like she has more information when she's reading a panel and And looking into the ingredients and stuff. So it's just been fascinating, like, of course, entering into buyer conversations and having the paperwork that's necessary and being able – I mean, this has never happened for Ambarella where we've had to do a recall, thankfully. We've had, like, sticky gummies because of packaging that was a hundred percent compostable that, like, was making the product just, like, not – not enjoyable in terms of like, oh, I need to wash my hands now I've had the gummies. But it was still delicious just to put that out there. Oh, thank you. We had to switch packaging, right? But like it wasn't, the product wasn't like a danger to anyone. So yeah, we'd recalled on like the local level, but we've never had to do a large scale. But if we did, thank goodness that we have tracking available to be able to do it. So yeah, if I look back to like all that we've accomplished in our work together, it's pretty large. But I love that. I know when we had that conversation, I loved hearing you be like, like, don't you know, on a label like this needs to be like after the ingredient statement, like the allergens and like location, like these things have specific spots they need to be. Yeah. And it's fun to go to a grocery, like into a store, retail, wherever. Right. And look at things and be like, hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And what's fascinating is that I can walk into the largest stores and find issues and And this actually reminds me of when I was having an inspection with local health department and I was talking to like a wonderful inspector who was saying to me that she was in Costco like the day before and using the restroom and like it was not compliant. And I'm like, Costco? Like that's hilarious. But I said, so what'd you do? She said nothing. I wasn't on the clock. You know, like I can only handle what's in front of me and what I'm supposed to. I don't walk into places personally. And then, but she said, I look at things from that angle. So, I mean, I think that there's a lot of brands that like slide through and that are in large retail and you think everyone's done the steps, but like, like, like we've talked about, everyone has room for improvement and it doesn't necessarily make it like a danger to consumers. Right. But yeah. um there's room for improvement for all of us there is so on that note like so if there would be a small food founder that's listening right now and they're thinking yep i have this dream i have this vision of somewhere i want to be in six months but they're also like i know i'm not where i need to be what would be one thing that you would recommend that they do I think they should talk to another founder. Sorry, Taylor. I think I'm having Wi-Fi problems. Are we back? Oh, sorry. Are we back? Sorry. I had my Wi-Fi go a little funny, I think. Okay. I think we're caught up now. Yes. Oh, sorry to the audience out there. I think we're having a technical difficulty now. Are you there, Taylor? I am. Yeah. And I think we're caught up. Okay. So the advice, the advice that I would give to, are we still, is it still working? We're on, I think. I can hear you. I think real time now. Okay. Okay. Um, the advice that I would give to another small business is connect with founders who have walked the path that's before you. I think those conversations are super important. I just had a conversation with another founder who's in line review with target. And we talked about my journey with target. Her journey is likely going to be very different than mine. She's in a different category, different buyer. You know, all of it. She's a co-packer. She's not producing herself. She's not needing to ship herself. But regardless, like be open to the good, the bad and the ugly, whether it's in terms of retail, whether it's in terms of like, oh, I'm about to build out manufacturing or I, you know, anytime you think of a large retail, just expect them to expect more from you. And that's across the board, food safety, marketing, like free fills, all of it. Expect that they will ask you for more and be prepared. And yeah, the more conversations you can have with people who have been on your journey, the better. And yeah, there's information that is not going to be shared that you still will have to learn on the spot. But still, those conversations are super important. And I love that because I think that's important. Like sometimes we feel like we're alone, like, I mean, we know others are out there, but tapping into the community around us and having a spot to, you know, people to be able to share that experience and learn is so powerful. And for, for all of you out there, sorry, and Taylor too, for some reason, it feels like my wifi is a little unstable. So I apologize for that probably interfering with the end of here of our conversation. No worries. Taylor, it has been like I'm so grateful that we came together years ago, but also just your time today and sharing. And I know we've kind of... We started at the top and there'll be some other things that I'm sure will come up for people. But thank you for this part of the conversation and sharing part of the journey with us. Yeah, my pleasure. Anytime questions come up when this goes live, please share them my way. And for any of you listening, I would be more than happy to be a resource and to connect with you. And Jill and Tia, who is not here, I absolutely love you both. I'm just so grateful that you have been on our team and you have taught us so much about food safety, but also just life. You know, I became a mom of two since we've known each other. And it's been so wonderful to just like have real conversations about where I am at today, building a business and also building a family. And so thank you for being a friend. Oh, my gosh. We love like growing and living with you. So thank you. Thank you so much. And we've learned so much from you too, Taylor. You know, I think about, you know, if this story feels familiar to people that are listening, you know, we were looking at ways. to do things a little bit differently to make it more accessible, to make it more meeting you where you're at. And so we are building something specifically for small businesses. And Taylor, we've given you a preview of it. And it's still a work in progress. But our goal is like, how do we support better without some of the overwhelm and the enterprise price tag that can come with consulting? And so if that's something you're interested in, we're going to put a link in the show notes for our small business starter kit. And then we can get you more information. But the more we learn together, the more we all grow together. So that is where it's at. Totally. So thank you so much again, Taylor. Loved having you on. Thank you to our audience. Thank you. This is our, this is real talk for today. So we hope you enjoyed the show and we hope you have a great rest of your week. Thanks everyone. Thanks. Bye. Bye.
