Hello, everyone. Welcome to Real Talk with Tia and Jill. And we have a very special guest today. Welcome, Beth Fernandez. Thank you for having me. Thank you for starting your week with us and with our audience. Yes. Great way to start the week. I love it. It is. It is a great way to start the week. Well, we think so. We're biased. Right. Sometimes just like, you know, I used to think I like to just dive in and get the week started. And I do. And I do that even before real talk starts. But I do like this moment of like just pausing and having a conversation because otherwise I do just hit the ground running and go, go, go. And so I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that our audience joins us. Like it's a good start to the week. yes yes so say hello in the comments because we want we want to see you out there see where you are where you are listening from or watching from we love to say hello and you're right i i love to just hear like what are people focused on for the week like what are some top things and real talk allows me to do that at the start of my at the start of my week because i know today is going to be great Yes. So I'm joining, I typically over in Minnesota when we start our real talk, but today I'm out in California. So it's a little bit dreary, like just rainy here, but like most places they probably need the rain. So. That is true. They were saying like most of the U.S. is, they're like in a drought. And I'm so tired of rain here in Baltimore. I was going to say, you've been getting a lot of rain in like severe weather, right? Yes, we've had a lot of rain. We have been back and forth in Chicago, which is normal Chicago, right? Springtime and so forth. But I'm over it. I think I'm ready for spring to have sprung here. But Jill, I'm thrilled you're letting me know. And I don't know what part of California you're in, but I'm headed out to California tomorrow. So I will absolutely pack up the rain gear too, just in case, because got to be prepared, right? Yeah. It's just supposed to be today, but I love like just the three of us. We have the country, like the U.S. at least covered. We're West, East, and Midwest. Yeah. that is true that is true all the weather but we are waiting for summertime i can't wait for the summer weather i know i'm like please even though i shouldn't complain it's really nice today it's in the sixties but i'm like i just wanted to be like in the seventies you know i wanted to be warm i want to walk outside with short sleeves you know like i want to put on a dress i'm just saying now you now you all know like this is i don't want to be dressed like this I would say fly to Chicago because it will be in the seventies, but by the time you get here, it will probably be back to the fifties. Well, hey, if this is your first time joining Real Talk, as you can see, we like to just have honest conversations, not only about what's happening in our life, but really how to lead people forward in food. So I'm Jill, this is Tia, and our guest today, Beth, is here. And she has had years of experience in food safety, quality, consulting, and someone who spent years leading global food safety programs as a VP. And now Beth, right, you work as a consultant with organizations. And I love this because you get to walk in and see things with fresh eyes that maybe people haven't seen in a while. And even as we were kind of getting ready today, we talked about, right, these, all these perspectives, especially an outside perspective is, can be so valuable. And that's really what today's conversation is about because when we are in an organization, we are part of the leadership that has built the culture that we are in. And so sometimes it's even hard to see the things that have contributed to what's in front of us. And that becomes normal. We kind of explain things away like, oh, that's just how we do it. But those are things that are also really powerful to be able to connect to culture. So that's what we're talking about. And if you're leading in a food company or you're responsible for what happens when something goes wrong, this show today is for you because we're diving into all of that. Yes. Yes. And it's super relevant as we think about our cultures and we think about how to shift. I know food safety culture has been a topic, right, for decades. decades um and i don't even like the word i don't even like the phrase anymore right because it's it's i mean i mean how many times have we had conversations around is it a buzzword are we shifting is this happening and many times and we see it with our clients when we come in and we talk about culture i mean not just safety culture but culture and people Even the leaders think back to, oh, yeah, we used to do that. Or, oh, yeah, I did that in another role. But it's like an outside perspective can help us connect to things that we maybe remember or even new ideas on, oh, we haven't tried it that way before. Yeah. I love how you phrase that, Jill. Like there's a desensitizing to that statement, right? And I think it is, you know, let's get beyond that statement. Let's get to what is really personal. Right. And thinking about our commitment and so forth. Right. Is I always think back to the first time I bought a car. Right. From the car salesman and the car salesman is just like, what's going to make you commit to this today? Right. And like sign on this line. Right. Like I've never dealt with that before. But like you as a person, right, when you commit to something and you sign for something, you're like ninety nine percent because your brain is channeled to it. You've made this commitment, right? You're all in. Right. And so forth. And I'm not advocating that food safety people become used car salesmen. Let's be clear. Right. But I do think it's about let's get beyond the statement. Let's get beyond the requirement in a GFSI audit. Let's get to the hearts and minds of this, not just the org structure and the, you know, the tactical moves, right, that we make to achieve this. Let's really get to the heart of it. And it was, you know, you talked about I've shifted, right, and so forth. And a facility that I went into the other day producing baby food. And right up as you go inside this facility is a picture of a baby. And every single person in the facility had signed on it, but also said their personal why was, why it's so important, not just that baby face, right, that I walk by, the elephant in the room every time I go into the facility, but their personal reason. And any new person, they pull it down, what is your personal reason to assure this product at the end of the day, right? And I think that's a piece, right, we're so focused on, can I check the box? And we're not getting to the hearts and minds, which is really what assures the product at the end of the day, right? And I loved your conversation last week. I was nerding out on it. And I say nerd lovingly because of those portions, right? Is get beyond the paper and the pencil, get to the hearts and the minds, right? Yeah. Mm hmm. Gosh, that reminds me of back in the day when I worked at Golden Plump. One of the things that we did was that was most successful was to have everybody kind of do that same thing where it was food safety. I promise. And it sounds so funny, but the I promise is so personal. Yeah. Right. There is no passing that off. And that was so powerful. And I've carried that with me. And it reminds me of something that Tia and I talk a lot about with people is that people protect what they own. But so often I think with food safety, you know, we want people to do things, but we don't want to give up that full ownership of something like. we we feel as and i'm gonna i'm gonna generalize as a food safety kind of technical expert right then i'm like oh you can do all of that but not quite this part or you don't know enough maybe about that part to make that happen or to decide that so i've contributed to not allowing people to be full owners and so i think that's part of what i've seen that they're like yeah i kind of do my part and yeah i'll do it well but when i think about asking them for commitment I never allowed for them to fully step into commitment because I was never turning over ownership. Ooh, yeah. Not fully. That's like a mic drop right there, right? Is empowering people, right? When I go into these facilities, right, is a key tell of kind of the maturity of food safety and quality is the question, who owns it? Right. And if everybody's pointing at the food safety person, it's like you have three hundred people in your facility. Right. It's the same thing as safety. Right. We all own it. But you're right. You have to give those reins. Right. And I and I think especially in food safety, we think about the operations not giving reins to people to be able to stop the line and do what needs to get done. Mm hmm. but we need to do the same and i think there's an important inflection point here jill right as i go into these facilities oftentimes and you know you i was so worried about this title i'm like oh lord what do i need to share here for people what do i see but i think it's a what i see most often is a disconnect between people not seeing and people not understanding Because they might see it, right? Physically, okay, yes, I can see it. But what do I do to really rectify it, right? And how do I appreciate what that means to the bigger picture? I might not at all, right? And so... Are we empowering them, but empowering them with the right knowledge to be really effective in that as well? Right. So it's both a see and understand. And I'm going to expand the sea to like. All of your senses. Right. Because more often than not, I smell it before I see it. Or I hear it. What is that crunching sound? Why do I hear this friction sound going on? I'm going to expand it. Bring all of those senses to the equation. Not just what you see, but the entire picture, right, to what's transpiring. Yeah, Tia, you were gonna say something? No, I love exactly what you're talking about, where when you walk in, it's not just what you see, but you're really using all of these senses. And I love, too, the way that you talked about this understanding. You know, when we talk about empowerment, we talk about how it really is a shift of power from yourself to others. And that must be done in a responsible way, right? You can't just say, oh, everything is yours now. Now go, right? Like we've been in those situations. We've had clients where they're like, well, operations supposed to be doing this, but I have no idea if they're doing it, if they're doing it right, if they've been trained. Like I don't have any of these parts, but they're supposed to be doing it. i don't know if they are or not right not responsible versus how do i give them what they need in order to produce safe quality food like that that is the the mindset around it and i love the way that you break it down from like not just being able to see it but understand how does this moment in time impact the product how does it impact what i'm sending out or what someone is going to experience with the product What like how does that fit in? How does that fit into my day to day job? But then also, how does that fit into my quality team and what they do or what HR does or, you know, like insert other functions? Do they really understand that they're this critical part in a three hundred person job, you know, or in, you know, in a ten function organization? Do they really understand that they are this critical piece of it? And sometimes we miss that. People just kind of just see what's in front of them and that's it. I love, I love that. Yeah. And I was thinking just as an offshoot to that, right. And that understanding is the language that we use to communicate, right. Uh, you know, in our, our little worlds, right. We have very technical language. Um, and I was, I was at an offsite last week and, you know, I'm sitting in the back of this vehicle. and everyone else in the vehicle are finance people. And I was like, wow, there I was thinking I knew a little bit about finance, but this is a foreign language today and I'm learning so many new things, right? So I think there's an element of how do we translate, how do we translate in a way that's meaningful to the people that we're connecting with, right? I think oftentimes we make assumptions as to where people are connecting with it, but we're not sure they're really connecting with it in a way that's super meaningful. I also think people are a little afraid to say when they don't know. And I think there's such an important reframe that we need to make here, which is, I don't understand it yet. Right? Yeah, I love yet. I love yet. That is my absolute favorite three-letter word these days is the power of yet, right? Is, you know, my six-year-old daughter is a sponge and she's learning so much and she gets frustrated because she's like, I don't get it. I can't do it. And it's like, you can't do it yet. You got to keep going and asking the right questions. But I think we've got to be open to that too, right? To save space for an actual appreciation and understanding and not, okay, let me cruise to the end of this, right? Check the block, right? It reminds me of what you said earlier with the used car salesman when you're saying, okay, he's saying, what do you need to commit? You know, and we've all bought cars, right? And they mean it. Like, tell me, what do you, what do you need to commit? And I'm going to see if I can do it so I can get you started. If we look at it from our perspective of what can we do for you to commit to food safety, even just are we afraid of what the answer is going to be? Are we really going to be able to support what they say? I need this in order to commit. Right. I need different equipment or I need insert. Right. Are we afraid of those answers? So we don't really ask because we feel like they should commit in the environment that we're kind of putting them in. When in reality, right. We've already kind of talked about this. We have a culture problem in the food industry and we're telling them to commit fully without saying, what is it that you need to commit to what we're doing? How can I make that? I mean, it's, Really, it's permanent leadership, right? How do I remove barriers for you in order for you to fully commit to what we're doing? What do you need to be able to understand, to be able to see, to be able to feel, to be able to take on what it is we're moving towards in the future? And I don't think I've ever asked. I don't think I've ever heard someone ask the question, what is it going to take for you to commit to food safety in that way and be willing to listen and do? Mm-hmm. It's actually really interesting to kind of think about. Well, I think that ties into something, Beth, that you talked about earlier, you know, that words matter. And when we think about culture and just how we are or how people are in an organization, it seems whether it's an audit or... you know, our own internal assessment that we often go to something that is physical that we can see, which is the line and the process and what people are doing. And I know the conversation is often around how do we look at behaviors and some of the why and the understanding. But I wonder about how powerful it would be if as leaders we could create space to actually pause and think about those words and notice the relationships we have and the relationships or the conversations we shy away from or the decisions we hold back from. Those are the moments that are telling us about what culture is in those spaces. And yet that's not a spot where we typically... pause long enough to be able to notice or follow perhaps this this moment this gut instinct or this like all of a sudden this intuitive moment where you're like oh what was that we kind of just keep barreling through it or maybe we're it's like me maybe I was uncertain of what do I do with that mm-hmm Are those the like invisible things or like have you noticed those when you walk into companies or I'm just curious. I mean, absolutely. I'm going to take this maybe in two parts. Right. And the first part of this, I don't think anyone will be shocked by. Right. Is when I walk into a facility. If people are making eye contact with me, if they're, you know, they just come up and talk with you, right? Like, oh, I want to show you this and let's go look at that. You know, I'm so excited you're here. That says a lot about the culture right there, right? Or it's the, they make no eye contact. And look, usually when I go into these facilities, right, I've got visitor right across here. I'm in like a red smock. So everybody knows I'm a visitor, right? You know, the whole nine yards, right? And then you get people who make no eye contact, who you can see on their face, like, please don't ask me a question about food safety. Like, I just want to finish my shift and I want to leave. And I think there's a piece that we're forgetting in this process, which is just everyone wants to be acknowledged, right? Right. Whether they're at the table with you or they're not. Right. And I think one of the things that I've learned the most from is just those healthy pauses and making sure that I really am listening. to the conversation, whether that is plant manager, the finance person, the mechanic who's out on the line, the sanitation team members, you know, whoever it is, is really pausing on that. But also bringing that voice back to the conversation. Because, you know, it's not uncommon, I'll go in and people will say, Well, we've brought this up before. And they really don't do anything about it. And I'm like, well, happy to bring that up again. And maybe we connect it to other things. So I'll give you an example. I went into this one facility, you know, and they said, well, our biggest, our biggest problem is we're having all of these different complaints, right? Complaints associated with the product quality overall. so on and so forth. And so I, this is one of the facilities I was, I can smell it before I can see it, right? I can smell the odor from the decay and the mold and the this, that, and other thing, right? And so forth. And when I went in, you know, I said, okay, well, you know, I'm smelling this odor. So I really want to take a look at the equipment. And, you know, people in the room were like, what odor? I was like, really? Okay. So we have, we have normalized this odor in our facility. It's been there so long. Right. That people are just like, that's just the natural order. of operations, right? It's like, wow. And then I spent time with the mechanics, and I spent time on sanitation. And we talked, you know, it's like, yeah, we're not getting down to the baseline level of clean every day. And we're being pushed to just finish. So we had to bring that team out and say, I can show you where these smells are coming from, lifting up different belts, opening up different vessels, and just like, I want you to smell into here, right? To re-get your sense of smell back. And then I want you to put your nose right in that vessel and tell me what you smell, right? Wow. Right? So you got to bring them along on that journey a little bit to open up the eyes, to open up the nose. But also be that voice of some of these folks who aren't necessarily feeling like you're hearing them and you're starting to action those things. Sorry, I talked ahead off there. Go ahead, Jill. No, no, no. But I think that's so important because I think so often we do have team members that they feel their voice isn't being heard. And so when you bring leaders to a spot like you talked about, I'm curious, what does that moment look like for those leaders? Do they recognize? Are they like, oh, good, now we get it? Or do they push back? Like, what happens in those moments to either confirm while we hear you or perhaps the opposite? It's a mix of both. It's a mix of both. For some, it really is like, I had never even thought to pull up that, you know, to pull up that conveyor. I never thought to look inside of there. Like it wasn't, it's not even on, it's not even on our pre-op inspection to look in there. Right. So some of it is that realization of we need to go beyond what's there today and really be more curious about, we've got to look in other places. So let's say, oh, an aha moment. Those are the ones I love and everybody loves like, OK, great. And, you know, connecting it back to, well, these are the people who've been saying this. So how do we start to make sure that that loop is continuous, right? But I think others, you know, I think one of my favorite ones is the, but here's the reason why we can't, right? Is, but it's an old facility. And that's probably my favorite one. You know, I just flew back from Charlotte, North Carolina. And what I'm certain is at least a forty year old plane. Right. All right. And nobody's saying, but it's a forty year old plane. I can't take care of this. Right. It's the same concept. I'm a consumer in an airline. You have consumers for your product to make sure. that your space is fit for purpose, right? And fit for purpose doesn't mean everything is three-sixteen stainless, you know, plated gold. It's really, you know, how we zone our facilities, right? And well, this isn't fit because we have so much collection on the line. We have so many of this going on. So we need to evolve this. But at the same time, you spent too much over here, right? Where it's not needed. So I think there's, as you get into kind of that pushback space, is thinking about what are some of those normal business levers that and how do you start to overcome some of them, right? And that's a piece outside of that culture. When I think about food safety and quality folks, that's usually a gap for them. Being able to bridge between What's important in food safety and quality and connecting that back to, well, here's what you said our goals are. Here's how this connects to that. Here's our biggest issue. You've said this is our biggest issue. Here's how that connects to this and why we need to do why. Mm hmm. Yes, one hundred percent agree with that. And many times we wait for someone else to tell us when in reality it's really our leadership that is responsible for connecting that for the organization. We want to do this as a food safety and quality group or, you know, insert any function. And this is how this ties back to our overall goals of the organization. And you're right. It's funny, like, even when you were talking about like, oh, this is an old facility, so we can't do these things. I just think like, we've all kind of watched HGTV and we've all kind of watched places that are super old, all of a sudden feel like it's brand new. And I love it too, the way you talk about like, You put money here. You don't want to put money here because that's like wasting money. You know, whatever it happens to be. And I feel like when we think about newer generations coming into the workforce, you know, they're not going to accept this is an old building. And therefore, we can't do these things because, well, we know that we can do these things in old buildings, right? You just need to put the funds towards it. Or they're kind of asking the question, well, then why are we using it? old to use why why are we using it if it if it can't get us to the the level of clean that we need to see right to the type of culture the type of culture we want to see I'm curious, like when you, when we talk about this gap and normalizing, right, where it's like, just like the smell, where the smell is now a part of day to day versus like saying, ooh, something's off here. What do you see sort of happening in a food organization to get to that point? Or what kind of accelerates them to get to the point of going nose blind or not really seeing the things that an outside person coming in was like, ooh, why is it all green? And everyone's like, it's always been green. How do they get there? Yeah, I think some of it goes back to what we were talking about, right, is bringing the right people to the table, right? So I'm thinking back to when I was an FSQ manager and I had this amazing supervisor, but I would never bring her into an audit, right? Right? Because she would be like, yep, and we've had all these issues, and yep, and they're still going on. You know, it's like, okay, with a customer, like, yes, she loves what she does, but you don't bring that here, right? But there are people you're not bringing to the table who actually can get those things moving. I think some of it, sometimes it's a, well, we've heard this before, we haven't been able to solve it. And because we can't solve it, we're gonna just kind of put it in this bucket over here of like, we'll figure it out later at some point, right? And part of that is, are we bringing, so a lot of my time gets spent on the floor, I spend a lot of time in sanitation. I spend a lot of time with maintenance. And all I do is I am not a maintenance person in any way, shape or form, right? My husband would tell you, I can't fix something simple. I hand it to him, right? That's not my area of expertise. But what I do is just be really curious and keep asking questions. And oftentimes it's the people that you're not bringing into the table that have the solve for you, right? Because they look at it in a different way or they're on that piece of equipment all day long, right? And they have the solve. You're just, you're not bringing them into that solve, right? So it goes back to what we were talking about of empowering people some people who aren't at the table to really help you to fix the things that you know, you haven't haven't been able to solve. You know, I think back to there, there's this old thing where, you know, they had kindergartners in one room, and they were building like the tallest tower with marshmallows, and then they hold a whole bunch of MBAs off in another room, trying to build the tallest tower. So who built the tallest tower? The kindergartners. Right. It's always we don't expect the marshmallow test. Right. Right. It's the kindergartners because there's no ego there. Right. There is just how do we solve it, right? And so I think there's an element of let's get past the titles at the table. Let's get to the solve, right? I think that's a piece of it is, yep, we brought it up before. We couldn't solve it. So we're just moving. We're moving on, right? And that's real. That is so real. And I love talking about that because the book, The Culture Code, actually uses that as one of their first examples. And it was the first time when I read that years ago when they used the term status management to explain that difference between why the kindergartners were so good at this because they weren't worried about about, oh, that person I'm working with has this title. I don't know if I can tell them that sucks or whatever that was. The group of MBAs, they were so caught up and probably not even conscious of it. This status management that was happening that slowed them down and created less effective methods. Right. I love that you bring that up because I think in culture, there is that element of this status management and this hierarchy that naturally builds within leadership and org structures. And it takes so much intentional effort to, I don't know, I'm going to say like break that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think for me, sorry, and we miss that as leaders, right. Cause we've created this culture of kind of this hierarchy. And so we miss that it exists and, to be intentional about making sure that we actively try to dissolve it as well. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's an element of just an element of ego. Right. And a bit of pride. Right. I heard somebody say when you're driving, ego and pride are like right next to each other. Right. And at the end of the day, we all just want to be acknowledged. Right. I talked about I'm not a maintenance person. But maintenance is going to bring a perspective that I will never have. Like the production manager is going to bring a perspective that I will never have unless I sit in those shoes, right? And I create that for myself. Or I pause to hear that, right? And to hear how that, you know, a statement I love. How is that sitting with you? Mm-hmm. What I just said, how is that sitting with you? And just, you've got to pause because that's when we can bring each other along on that journey and we're all on the same page, man, things go fast. Yeah, and I feel like people don't ask other people outside of the people that are sitting at the table that question. Oh, we just finished that training. What do you think about it? How do you think that went? How is that going to impact your role? You know, are many times going to someone saying, I'm having this problem. What do you think it could be? You know, I love the way you said, let's get past the titles and let's get to the solution. And many times the people who have the solutions are the ones who's working with it every single day. really we're going to ask that question of how is this sitting with you what problems do you have here oh you know our other plant is having this problem do we see that here just asking those questions around it where someone else right probably has the solution over over us and really the the higher you are up in the organization the farther you are away from the solution Yeah. You should be asking more of those questions of people around you because you are farther away from the solution by design, right? Like we need to think about strategy. We need you to be thinking about what's going to happen in ten years. We need you to think about I was just having a conversation with someone about their organization. It's like, well, what's the ten year plan? What are they trying to be? Someone needs to be thinking about that. Yeah. But there's people there that's solving current issues. And if you're trying to solve a current issue like your culture issue or food safety issue, you have to talk to the people that's there, that's working there, that's a part of it. And I would even go one further to say, not just thinking about like, where else, like, where else are we having this problem? That's important. But I think this alludes to something you talked a little bit about earlier and that you and I talk about this, like in bootcamp a lot in terms of why is the loop broken that somebody isn't heard? Yeah. Like that's what the leader should solve. Mm-hmm. because when people do see things that aren't working our natural instinct is to say hey over here something's not working and over time we've kind of tampered that down by saying oh that's not your job or don't worry about that or that's not right whatever those things are and it doesn't happen just at work in other places in life too that carries over but as leaders if we can ask those questions like what created the environment that made it so that person's voice couldn't be heard. That will help us make strides. Yes. I agree with you. I mean, it goes back to entering a facility, right? It's the people who are going to just, I'm going to put my head down. I'm just going to do my job. That's it, right? It's that same mentality, right? And it is about how do we start to change that? And how do we start to lower the barrier of entry to the conversation? And one of the things I adopted a long time ago, because this is true, and sometimes I get people who laugh at it, but I always say, we you know this group there are far smarter people in this group than me which is absolutely true because everyone comes with a different skill set different perspective they know something more than i don't and if we don't hear that piece we're not really going to solve it right right and you know i was thinking back to a facility i walked into and there's like just piles of product on the floor. And I'm like, you know, the yield loss, you know, it's a tripping hazard. People are going to, you know, I'm just, I'm stepping around it. Cause I'm like, I'm, I am the like klutziest person in the world. I like landed on my butt on my first date with my husband. Like I am staring clear of all of that kind of thing, but I'm just like, Help me understand why this is here. You know, and somebody was like, oh, we've tried to solve that so many different times, right? We've never been able to solve it. And I'm like, I'm watching the line. I'm like, well, let's pause here for a few minutes. You know, here's what I'm seeing as I'm watching this. What do you see? Oh, I see this and I see that and I see this. I'm like, wow. You know, and then I go to the food and what about you? What are you seeing on this line? And is any of that new? And how do we, now, how do we operationalize that so you don't have this, you know, Mount Everest standing in the middle, you know, coming off of this line, right? So being more curious and pausing to solve some of those people, you know, some of those opportunities is time well spent. Yes. Yes. Time well spent. And you have to be intentional about it. I like the story that you just told because you intentionally said, well, let's pause. Let's take a look. Let's ask some questions, right? Versus saying, oh, yeah, we see it. We need to solve it. Keep going, right? Like, no, let's intentionally pause and look and see what's happening to see if, right? we have a solution for it or what solution to put into place and it makes me think about right it sounds so simple and i talk about this all the time we talk about it all the time just from a leadership skills standpoint where it sounds easy to be able to intentionally pause or to be in to ask quest questions in a certain way or even to stay curious while our to-do list is like Right, going up, up, up. And in reality, it takes skill to be able to do that. many times leaders are doing the opposite, right? They're shutting people down or they are making people feel like that they're not valued or they're not acknowledging people or even Jill, like what you're saying around, like we had this incident, but did anyone circle back and say, wow, why did we not hear them when they told us over the last two years or over the last six months? I feel like we struggle at that as leaders to do that loop back, to really focus on what skills do we need to build in our leaders to shift our culture? And I'm curious, as you walk into facilities, what do you see leaders do that they might unintentionally do to shift their culture in a negative way or to continue to keep their culture where it is because of how they show up, whether consciously or unconsciously? Yeah, I think, I mean, not surprisingly, a lot of people in those leadership roles are there because they've been able to get things done. Right. And I'm sure you all have taken like disc and some of those other personality things. Right. And so forth. And our drivers. Right. There are people who want to be able to accomplish and do the little tick mark. And I finished this. I'm even, you know, on that disc model. I'm a red, red, blue. Right. So but for me, I absolutely have to be conscious of that. And one thing I pose to these leaders when they're like, we need to do this and we need to do this and we need to do this is like, is two elements. One, what is the worst thing that could happen if you slowed down a little bit? To bring people along so that they actually want to do it, you know, and they see value in it because their voice has been heard. Yeah. And usually it's just, well, I told them I'd finish it by X. Oh, so this is your personal to do date when this is going to be done. So can that adjust slightly in order to get better buy-in from the front? Cause people are actually a part of the conversation versus you bulldozing over them to get to the end and the fix might not fix it. Right. What is the worst that can, what is the worst that can happen? The other piece is, and I think drivers in general tend to be scared of this, is you can do anything, but you cannot do everything. And so you have to be intentional in where you spend your time. Right. And then usually I will circle that back to the reason you brought me in was this. Right. And kind of having that eye opening moment of like, you probably wouldn't have even had to pay me. Right. If you just paused and brought the right people into the conversation and paused to make sure that their voices are actually in that conversation. Say less, ask more. Yes. Yes. Yes. I like how you say, like, you probably didn't even need to bring me in if you just pause, right? If you just pause and be intentional about how you're bringing people along with you. And then the personal deadline, that's a real thing. I feel like that's a real thing, especially for high performers. Oh, yes. You have your deadline. You're going for that. When in reality, you've talked to no one about the deadline, number one. This is your own personal one. You've talked to no one. You haven't aligned with anyone. And you haven't aligned with people who are not typically at your table because they're not on your timeline. Right. And they have the ability to derail your timeline, but you haven't done any, you haven't had any conversations, but you have this deadline that you wrote on a sticky note or in your, in your notebook or on your calendar that you're marching towards, regardless of what the culture is telling you to do. Right. Which is the slow down, being more intentional, bring more people with you. It's kind of interesting how we kind of get into that mindset and we do, we bulldoze through. Well, it's almost like we forget that leadership in itself is a system. It's a process. You know, and I think about companies that I admire that it feels like maybe not organizationally, but maybe pockets that seem to foster strong culture. They really make sure that this leadership, this intentional leadership is at the core. versus companies where it does seem to break down because it is just driven by go do, go do, go do, go do. And I think about later this week, I have some one-on-one with some clients, not just coaching, but like checking in. And even for me, my natural instinct is to be like, tell me what's happening with this project and this project and this project. And I have to intentionally pause to create space to answer, to ask the bigger questions like, you know, like what's been going well? Like, what have you been proud of? Like, where, where do you feel you're stuck? Where do you feel you could make decisions that you're not able to right now? And that is even for me, someone in this space that advocates for others, I still have to remind myself to pause and step into that space instead of the default that is, tell me about those projects. Tell me where they are. Because I think there's an element where we all want to provide value, right? Back to the company that we're working for, you know, as a consultant, the big piece for me is I need to be able to show value as quickly as possible, right? That what you spent on me made sense at the end of the day, right? And that you have, for me, I'd say, I want to give you tools that'll make you successful so you don't. have to come back to me right those are tools for tools for life right there's value in not just having a full plate yes there's value in being able to have the time to think about things and to actually put in things that will be meaningful beyond Beth Fernandez in this moment. And I think sometimes we bypass that value. And Jill, you were talking about the best companies that you have seen, right? Who really bring this to life. I think a part of it and companies struggle with this, I think because they have a lot of drivers is the ruthless prioritization of what is really important? What do we have to go after, you know, for our business, for our customer, let's get really clear on defining that. And then all this other stuff is other stuff, which if we have time, that's great. If we, we don't, we need to be able to say, and everybody be okay with it is, but these are our priorities. This is what we're focused on and why. I think organizations, I agree with you. I think organizations, too, that have strong leaders, they understand that how they accomplish those goals is important, is equally important as accomplishing them, if not more. So if we have to cut corners or treat people poorly or not bring people along with us, then maybe we shouldn't do that right now. Maybe we need to think about it in the sense of we need to make sure we're not destroying our culture while trying to accomplish priorities. We need to make sure that people feel appreciated. We need to make sure people feel acknowledged, that they are a part of it, that they are actually championing the things that we're doing, that we've asked the question, what do you need in order to commit to this future? So we're all marching together towards these priorities. Because we've seen it where organizations like they might be hitting all the goals, they're making all the money, they're doing all this, but people are miserable. And the way that leaders talk to their teammates are terrible. And people feel horrible showing up to this organization. But check, check, check, everything's green, right? Everything's green, everything's going. But they're missing this key part of are we taking care of our people? how we get these things done is important. And that's what shows up in culture. So Beth, I'm curious, you know, there's a lot of talk right now since it's not just SQF that's come out with edition ten saying we're going to audit differently. Like all the GFSI schemes are stepping into a space, even regulators, where they want to be able to more objectively understand culture. And I'm curious if from the work that you've done, do you think companies are prepared for that level of scrutiny? And I think that level of scrutiny is still something where navigating what does that actually mean? But I'm also, I'm gonna stack a question here. What do you think auditors will find that organizations aren't expecting? Hmm. i'm going to take the easy part of that question i mean i think that i think there are some companies who are ready for that is that food safety and quality is an everyday pulse in that company and they have brought it to every level they have connected at every level across the organization I think Jill, you and I were talking before about, I view that the same way I view values, right? Many companies I've been given the company values and I have it on this little card, but if somebody asks me what are the company values offhand and I don't have the card, I don't know, right? Because we never talk about it unless it's, you know, HR asking me what are the five, you know, because we haven't brought it to the hearts and minds. We haven't personalized it. We haven't learned about it enough. I don't understand it. I don't see it even alive and well in my company. But you're going to ask me a random question that I should be able to answer, right? Absolutely. So we've got to get it to, you know, so I don't think every company is there today. I've seen it, right? I've seen both sides of that fence. There are some who are, and those who are have really operationalized it throughout everything they do. It's important. It's key. We talk about it all the time, right? It shows up in our goals. It shows up in our mission. It's connected back to what we do at the end of the day. The ones who are not ready are thinking it's an audit. I'll just tell five people be ready and I'm going to come over to you and you talk about food safety that day. Right. But food safety, food safety happens every single day. And in order to assure that you have to be prepared for that piece from an auditor standpoint, whether it's, you know, so recently they talked about how FDA and, you know, department of health and all of those are really starting to get together. and be more consistent in their audits out to the different facilities. And I think it's similar is we're just thinking they're going to ask the normal types of stuff and they're going to look at the normal things. But what I share with people is just like I'm coming in and using all of my senses, right? And I'm getting really curious about everything that's happening. I'm staying on third shift and I'm talking to these people. And I don't think the FDA will stay on third shift unless it's for cause. Or the only shift that sanitation's on. But I think if you think in that mindset about Food safety and quality is an everyday thing. It doesn't just happen one day out of three sixty five. And you have it connected well back to the companies. You know, this is our commitment to food safety. Then you have it connected at each level. This is my commitment to food safety and this is why. Um, you know, and, and that you're talking about it all the time. People feel it. That's going to translate. It's going to translate across auditors. It's going to translate day to day. It's, it's going to be there, but that's not where people are today. They're thinking about the, let me show you this checklist and let me show you this audit we do. And let me do this versus really getting to the hearts and minds of people. Yeah. Yeah, I love the way you talk about that because And I agree, because each person in your organization should be able to talk about how do these values show up in the work that they do, and what does it mean to them? I love using the example of integrity. Integrity probably is one of the most common values, I would say, in organizations. But integrity can mean a lot of different things to different people. So what does it mean here in the organization, and how do you relate it to the work that people do? individual people feel about integrity because the organizations could say well we have integrity because we share all the information that's happening with our with our people as long as it's not confidential and then the other person's like well we don't have integrity because i see what's happening right here in my plan you know and then that's what they're basing all their integrity on versus the organization saying well we have integrity can we do these town halls We have transparency. So it's like integrity means something different to people. How have you communicated that this is what it means here? I remember, Jill, when we were at a conference in Mexico City and a part of our presentation was relating values to how it shows up, right? We talk about a lot in our strategic leader. And we asked the audience questions on like, how does this show up as you're having conversation about food safety? When you're in conflict with someone, how do you lean on the values that you're supposed to embody there at the organization? And you can hear some people are like, well, you know, we really don't do that. Some people had some good examples. Some people are just like, well, we have five values and I know them all, but really can't relate it to the work that they do every day. And I think that that's a huge miss. That's a huge miss for organizations today. important people yeah i absolutely agree yeah yeah gosh you know our time always goes so fast beth we could talk at least i mean for sure another hour oh i bet like we could like do more way more but um i want to be mindful of time and even you know your time in the audience but i i am curious before we wrap up you know, what's one thing you want a food company leader to actually do after this conversation? Not just think about like, oh, that was a good point that Beth made or that Tia made, but actually go do. I think I'll boil it down to two words, which is taking the time to care, right? Not to just tick the box and get something done, right? If you care, and you're curious, you're going to ask a lot more. You're gonna put this ego off to the side and you are going to engage in a different way. And I think that would be my ask, right? Is none of us knows everything until the robot apocalypse and AI takes over everything. Yeah, is... We're people at the end of the day, and we all bring things to the equation. Take time to understand what that is, because then your solutions and the things you're trying to solve are going to be much richer for it. Much richer for it. Yeah. Yeah. And that makes things like passing audits, hitting numbers and showing up every day much easier when people know that you care about them and what they do. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like what strikes me the most from this conversation is that you're not just describing like rare or dramatic situations, right? You're describing organizations from what you see, right, when you walk into it. And it's not about just passing audits or hitting the numbers. It's really how are we showing up every day? What is that gap that's really costing consumers, people that work there, our organizations? And we always talk about culture problems are expensive. You know, they're expensive and they're typically things that we are not intentionally focused on or people have stopped noticing, which we kind of talked about today. Right. As a part of our conversation. And it kind of hangs out in the background when you when you talk about the client that you went into and there's piles of product on the floor, that is money sitting on the floor. And we always have people come up to us on like, well, if they just put money here, we can save all of this. But the organization just hasn't listened to those people. And the one thing that stood out to me is how do you make sure that you are listening to those people? How do you bring those people into the conversation? Be intentional. Absolutely. All right. Well, if you're listening, today's conversation made you want to pause and be intentional to understand where your organization stands. We've put together a guide that specifically is made for this type of moment. And even though the focus is kind of in this vein of SQF, because they're kind of out in the, you know, in our space right now talking a lot about their changes. It's really a guide for any company, whether you're GFSI certified or not, but it's intended to just give you some... Actually, there's six questions, I'll tell you. There's six questions, that's a self-assessment, just to help you just pause and think about some of the things that we talked about today. So we're going to link it in the show notes that you can can grab that. But you know, this is the time that when you're ready to have a real conversation about what's hiding inside your organization's culture gap, like Now's the time to go do. So if that's getting our guide, if it's talking with us because we love to brainstorm, like we're happy to do that. And it's no pitch. It's just honest conversation. And the goal is to get you moving forward. Because one thing we believe in is that culture doesn't change until leaders do. So it starts with you. Absolutely. Thank you, Beth, for being here with us. Yes. Thank you to our audience for being out here, adding your perspectives, listening. Right. And of course, doing the work that you do every day. Yeah. So thanks for joining us. That's today's real talk. We'll see you next time. Yes. See you next Monday. Thank you. Bye bye.
