Hello, everyone. Welcome to Real Talk with Tia and Jill. Welcome, welcome. We're kicking off another week. Yes, we are with Real Talk. I know. Actually, I'm like, I always really look forward to this now. I know, Tia, you've seen me go back and forth where I'm like, we're going to go live every week. And then I'm like, yeah, let's not. Now I'm like, this is like I'm all in it again. yeah you know well you know me i'm like is my hair okay this week um for for for the live but also i just love talking about what is top of mind for people um conversations that we've seen that we've had um and of course share it with you all who's listening I know. I think that is my favorite part. Cause I love when people like comment, they share, they mentioned something on LinkedIn about it, or they tag us, you know, when we put out like a, a recap and, and share like, what did it mean for them? Yes. Because otherwise these are the conversations that you don't typically have like in a webinar. So I think that's why I kind of go back and forth because it's a time commitment, but we love doing it. Yeah. But there are moments where, like everybody, where you're like, ah, another thing on my plate. But the chance to be here is always good. Yes, yes. And in line with, I love it that you brought up the, you know, the texts or LinkedIn messages that we get. Because those, I mean, honestly, that tells us what we need to talk about on Real Talk. But it also gives us, I mean, the title around this is around feedback. It also gives us feedback on what do people want to talk about, what are top of mind, but then also the conversations we're having and the direction we're also talking about, does that make sense? Does that resonate with people? And so we love hearing that feedback. That is very helpful for us. And we know feedback is super important, which is the reason why it is the topic for today. That's our topic, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. And if you are new to Real Talk, if this is your first time, well, welcome. This is where we like to have honest conversations to lead people forward in food. I'm Jill. This is Tia. And really, today's episode that we've already alluded to is about leadership feedback that nobody's giving you and why that's a problem. And so this one's weaves in a bit about leadership because, and feedback, I mean, because, you know, this, we all have these blind spots, these things that we don't see in our own leadership or even the way that we offer something to others without realizing, is it something that they're willing to like actually take and bring in? Right. Yes. And I think, you know, as even as we were talking about before we even hit record, like a lot of leaders aren't getting the feedback that actually helps them grow. And I'm guilty. How many times have I had a leader who's like, how am I doing? I'm like, just fine, great. They're like, how can I help you? And I'm like, I'm fine. And so I haven't put the effort in. And I think that is such a lost opportunity because when we think about this quest of, How do we engage people different? How do we empower them? How do we shift culture? Like it starts with us. Yes. And if we're not open to the feedback or we're not open to providing meaningful feedback, we are not able to move culture forward. Yeah. It makes me think about the questions that we ask people on, well, what do you think your team thinks about this? Or how do you think this person perceives this? many times we get the answer of, well, I'm not sure. I don't know. I know how I feel. I might know what my survey says, but there's been no communication at all. There's been no true feedback given that, like you said, that's meaningful, that's intentional. And so we get into these positions that we're trying to solve something, but we really haven't collected the right feedback to understand what direction we need to go in. Yeah. Whether it's, and I'm going to say all feedback's important. Sometimes it feels like it's just a little snippet of a feedback and you think, oh, is it really that important to give? I always want to, like now I want to be like, yes, those are the moments when it comes to mind that, right, that's where you can provide that feedback. And even just, even that whole, the whole way you position it with, oh, you know, I just had a moment where I thought this. How does that sit with you? Right. Yes. And that way it's not this huge thing of I wrote up a whole feedback report on you. Right. Or for you. Right. It doesn't have to be that heavy. And feedback, we focus on feedback, giving and receiving feedback within our leadership boot camp. And it's because it is extremely important. One of the things that we talk about is just the need for positive feedback and constructive feedback. And some of the data that we talk about in there is that even as generations change, the younger generations that's coming into the workforce or that's already in the workforce, they actually desire more positive feedback, touch points. than before, right? All of us actually need more positive touch points than negative touch points or critical touch points. That's just human nature. But as we have different generations in the workforce, the younger the person is, most likely, according to data, they would need more positive feedback and interactions so even as we think about like feedback how do we and this is even like how do we not make it feel heavy even when it's a positive thing right how do you give these positive touch points because really it's like what fifteen to one you know you can't have like fifteen celebrations over Tia's amazing job that she's doing which I would appreciate but when will we have time to do anything else but like how are you intentionally still giving that Oh, you were super clear in that presentation. I really appreciate that. Right. Ooh, positive. Right. Ooh, I love what you did here. What do you think about shifting this? Right. Positive feedback, some critical feedback. How do you build it in that feedback is not, like you said, a big deal or something that's heavy. Yeah. You know, and I think the part that I've been on the other side in the audience where I'm like, well, of course feedback's important. And of course I'm gonna do it better. And of course I'm gonna make time for it. And then I maybe did for a day, maybe two, and then it would fall off. Yes. Um, so I think that even today, part of what we wanted to talk about or some of the things that, that you can do so you can keep doing feedback mm-hmm and keep creating some of that space. Yes. Because. one thing that we all know is that when you get generic feedback, it doesn't land. In fact, the other day, my kids were talking about, Oh gosh, drive some nuts. They're in sports and all. Right. And even in non-sports things, they're like, I don't want this participation award. They're like, it's, I mean, it's meaningless to them. Right. Right. Right. Yes. It holds nothing. And I chuckle that they finally recognize that there is this, um, propensity that we do participation awards so people all feel good and that they, that they too can kind of discern between, is it actually making them feel good or what? And that's, I think also translates over to the workplace. I think participation awards make the person giving the award feel better than the person receiving it. Yes. And we don't need feedback to feel like that in the workplace. Right. Exactly. Oh, that is such a good point. It's more about the person that's giving the feedback versus the person that should be receiving it. Yes. That's a fantastic way of saying that. And I think one thing, too, that I recognize with your story, with your boys, is that they know it's a participation trophy. You know what I mean? They know that this really doesn't hold value for them. They know why it's being given. And they're like, I don't want this. And in this case, even as you're telling the story, I would almost have that touch point be more of a negative touch point. Where now you thought like as the giver that this is so nice, I'm building up the positive bank of feedback. When in reality, the receiver could have said, oh, this is actually a negative touch point for me because it is so generic. It's, are you just kind of hyping me up so that I won't quit? Or are you, you know, like insert reasons on why people feel like, oh, you're just telling me this because someone else told you to tell me or someone else. Yep. Somebody said you should get some feedback. Exactly. Exactly. Or maybe I complained over here and now, you know, or maybe you're, I've seen it where leaders, it's very clear they're on some type of improvement plan. And then it's like, it's like their whole personality has shifted. And you're like, what's going on here? It has to be believable. It needs to be meaningful. And it needs to be helpful to the receiver. Otherwise, you could be doing more damage than good. I never thought of it from that perspective. But obviously, we've all been in those moments where you're like, that was just a passive aggressive comment I got. And that lands wrong. Right. Right, exactly. So if you're with us live and this is something you're like, yep, been there, done that, or felt it or seen it, let us know. I'm just curious if others are like, uh-huh, I've experienced that. Yes. I remember specifically when I was a young QE and we had a plant leader who had gotten some feedback just on building relationships and appearing friendly. And I mean, he was fantastic at his at his job, but he sometimes came off abrasive or really didn't know how to build relationships in a way that people want to be around him as a leader. And me and my counterpart, we knew immediately after he had gotten that feedback because just the whole vibes were different. And I remember when she came up to me like, have you had a conversation with this person today? And I'm like, no. this person is like smiling and he gave me, it was positive feedback, but like what he kind of like said, oh, great job on this. And she was just like, something's going on. Something is going on. And then by the end of the day, I'm like, yeah, I think he had probably gotten some feedback around it. But one thing that's interesting is that over time, he continued to get better at it. And then it did become a part of his leadership style. But in the beginning, all those little touch points that he was trying to do, we were kind of on high alert on what's kind of going on. What's happening here. Right. And as someone that's trying to either follow up on feedback or trying to do things differently, just know there's this period of time that people are going to be like, what is going on here before expectations are reset? Yeah, well, you know, that's interesting because one of the biggest things that can be a challenge for people as they're trying to shift something in their behavior is the people around them aren't prepared for what that looks like. Yes. So. When you think about whether it's feedback or, you know, insert what behavior you're working on, like that's so important to think about because you do show up in the space differently. You do like present a little bit differently. And that's intentional. Right. And so how do you how how do you address that? How do you position, you know, how do you, how do you like share that? And do you need to share that? So things for people to always think about. Because I don't think people think about like, oh, I'm going to share what I'm working on. I'm going to share these things when it can be so beneficial to do so. Right. Like, Hey, you know what? I want to work on giving feedback better. Will you all let me know? Like, I'm going to, will you all let me know if this is like, is this working for you? Right. Like, am I being clear? Am I providing better feedback than I have in the past? And that opens the door to them giving feedback and being honest about it because now you've set the stage for them to do that. And then you also, too, have sort of told their brains that this is important to you and this is what you're working on. So I want you to notice these things. So now they're on alert, right? And they're trying to notice these things and I've even done it for leaders who say that they wanted to see a certain thing in me. I know that I'm already doing it. So I have conversations about it. And now all of a sudden people can notice it, right? Because we're human beings. We don't notice everything. We cannot notice everything around us. We pick and choose. But when you tell people, notice this about me, right? They are more likely to notice it at that point. Yeah. I'll go back to having Lawrence at the summit. It's almost a form of like confirmation bias. Like, Ooh, you told me to look for it. Ooh, yep. I see it. I confirm. I see it over and over. And that's just how our brains work. I feel like that's like a little leadership trick. A little leadership trick is to tell people what to notice. I feel like we don't do it enough. Well, it is because here's the other part, right? Then when they don't see it different, like, Hopefully you've created a space where people go, you said we should look for this, but I don't see it. Have you started? Yes. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And because you've announced it, right? You said, hey, take notice. Now they even feel comfortable, hopefully, coming up and telling you that, hey, I don't notice a difference. Or let me give you some examples on where I would expect it to show up, but I didn't see it. Maybe that's tough because that's like one of the biggest forms of accountability. Ooh, yes. Yes. Which we know leaders struggle with. It's holding others accountable. Even ourselves. Even ourselves, right? And I think feedback, when we think about feedback, giving feedback and receiving feedback, I feel like that's a... I don't want to say easy because I think receiving feedback and giving feedback is not easy. It's not easy to do. I feel like it's a low, maybe like a low consequence way of training your accountability muscle almost. I'm like, hey, I'm open to feedback. I want to receive feedback and then have people actually give you that feedback and you follow up on it. Like that's like this low, low level accountability that you can practice doing, giving, receiving, following up on to help grow that muscle so that when the larger accountability things kind of come on your plate, you're already starting to build that muscle. So it's not as cumbersome or heavy or foreign to your body on how you show up in those situations because you've been practicing holding yourself accountable. Yeah. Yeah. Super important. Gosh, it actually reminds me. So I'm like, I reread things periodically and I'm rereading the culture code and they share this story about it. If you've ever done this exercise, it's where you use the spaghetti and the marshmallows to like build a tower. And the person who did some of this original work was looking at like kindergartners versus, you know, executives and how they worked and how they built and what that all happened, what, you know, how it all turned out. Well, I mean, I don't want to be a spoiler alert, but I mean, you can read the details for yourself, but the kindergartners often had more success than like these groups of CEOs or MBA students or whatever that you would think had all this life experience and can do it really well. And one of the things that they highlight is that people in these spaces would hesitate to make, to give feedback because of status management. Yes. And it was fascinating the first time I read this book years ago because I never had a term to put around that. Oh, yes. Yes. And, you know, and sometimes with feedback, we fall into that trap because we're not sure how much we can say. And especially if it's someone who, you know, is in a role like above us, like a leader, you know, our leader or someone who's maybe even lateral. We're not sure sometimes in that relationship. And that's why I think when we talk about feedback and it can feel hard, it feels twice as hard when you haven't put the effort into building relationships and safe spaces. Yes. But if you've done that foundational work, feedback is ten times easier. Mm hmm. Oh, that is that's such a good point because you're right. I think people are nervous. Is it going to show up on my performance review at the end of the year? Or, you know, is it going to impact my bonus or is it going to impact me getting promoted or, you know, like really status management versus we're here to learn. We're here to have the best possible outcomes. We're here to grow. We're here to be productive. They care about me. They care about me. Right. They care about how I am, how I'm functioning as a whole human being, being here. Those are things that I feel like as leadership we miss. And that is that impacts how people show up. yeah so that's one of the blind spots right when we don't consider this type of well yeah this is we didn't even talk about this ahead of time but that's kind of like the status management that's something that's a big blind spot for leaders because we don't often we we kind of take it for granted that people are going to give us feedback when we ask for feedback right right yes and that that consideration of like have we built the relationship and created a space for them to truly be able to feel safe giving us feedback without consequences. Yes, yes. And as leaders, we should think about that more. It's like we don't even take that into consideration of like, you know, I'm a leader. Sure, give me feedback when like, why am I as a manager or supervisor going to give a vice president feedback? You know, how comfortable are they really going to feel giving feedback? And so even when you think about this topic of, like, no one's giving that feedback to you, right? And it's a problem that you're not hearing this feedback. You need to create an environment where you can get that feedback, whether it's you do create this safe environment that status management doesn't matter, or you have a pathway that people who don't care about your title because they're reporting to you or they're your peers are giving you that feedback through another avenue. And I think that kind of flows into the second part about feedback, which is so often the blind spot for leaders is that we mistake no news is good news. Like nobody's had anything to tell me. So I assume everything's fine. Yes. And if you ask people, this is probably one of the common ways of being, I would say, that people have. Where if you ask your team, like, how do you know you're doing a great job? You might have half your team members say, well, if I don't hear that I'm doing a bad job, I think I'm doing a good job. Mm-hmm. Right. I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything about it. And I was actually reading about this. I don't know if we talked about this or I know I was reading something around different generations where actually Gen Xers, this is like their core, where it's like they worked in a way that if you're not giving me any news, no news is good news. And this is heads down. I'm doing my job. Yeah, those last key hints, they were like, we just do our thing. Nobody tells us anything's going wrong. We're fine. And it's funny because even when I think about my own personal blind spot in leadership, this is one that I struggled with. And it's not necessarily that I thought no news is good news because I would get the, oh, yeah, great job. Yeah, yeah, you're doing great. Yeah, keep going. type things. I'm like, OK. But I felt like if I had some amount of conversation around a project or around the topic that if they didn't bring up anything, and that's maybe the no news, it's good news. If they didn't bring anything about concerns or if I say, oh, do you have any concerns? No, I'm good. OK. Concerns about the project, obviously, is what I asked. No, all good. Keep going. In reality, what I've learned over the years is that I need to actually ask specifically about feedback for me. Is there a way that I can make this process easier? How do you feel like I'm doing leading the project? Asking those very specific questions, I had to learn to number one, do that, and number Number one, do that. Number two, just what we even talked about earlier in the sense of as a leader, I had to step outside of myself and ask those hard questions because people might say, well, I think that you can lead a little differently here, you know, or do this. I had to be willing to accept that feedback and follow up on that feedback if I needed to. And that just takes a different level. Right. Well, I think the other part is, especially in the food industry, there's so much happening all the time. The pace is chaotic and relentless all at once. That pausing to actually ask for feedback or to formulate feedback, to receive feedback, I think oftentimes it doesn't feel like it has a place because it's not action, action, action, action, action. Oh my gosh, I actually have to slow down to do that. Yeah, a little bit, you do. You do, because you have to think about like, well, what is the feedback, right? And like I talked about, we've discussed this at length as a full module in our Leadership Bootcamp, where it's really about listening and understanding and gathering data. You know, all of that is needed in order for you to give feedback. But even for you to receive feedback, you have to be able to actively listen to it. And then you need to reflect on it and really think about how does it show up for you? And what are some parts that you want to keep? What are some parts you might want to let go? But all of that, to your point, is that reflection. And you have to slow down to be able to do it. And unfortunately, we're at a moment in time that our leadership, they're not slowing down. No. No, everybody's running a bit around. Which is why we see things like culture issue, retention issue, engagement issues. We really need to go back to how are we creating this time to reflect. If we're not hearing anything, if we're at the no news is good news, I haven't heard any news, I haven't heard any feedback, how do we stop and say, I need to go then and seek this feedback? Yeah. And you know, also to think about like, which race do we need to win? Ooh. Right. Yes. If we don't win the race and I don't mean to put it in like the super like maybe streamlined analogy, but like if we lose the race when it comes to people, like the other races don't matter. Right. Right. So which race do we need to win? Maybe think of it from that standpoint too. Yeah, I like that. I like that because in many times we're only thinking about one race. Like my task list and all the things here I have to get done. And the people, that race just gets back-burnered. Eventually you burn out, right? Eventually it's not, it's not important. I think too, like when we think about like, we, you know, you need to go out and seek this feedback if you're not hearing anything. that kind of falls into even our second one of the misconception of I have an open door policy. So we see leaders kind of like, well, I'm not hearing any feedback, but I've let people know my door is open. Oh, my gosh. That, you know, that's like one of our pet peeves. And I chuckle because when we were getting ready for the summit and just chatting a little bit with Lawrence and this came up as one of the pet peeves, he was like, wow. He laid it on. He was like, not only is it like like how do you expect someone just to come to you? But even he positioned it like, come into my den, like into my physical space and is this safe? And like, you come to me and this power differential, which are things we've talked about, but I loved how Lawrence totally got into it and like putting even the next layer of elements onto why this open door policy really is not effective. Yes. Yes. I know. I love the way Lawrence talked about that because it is so true. And I mean, we've all seen it. Like your like leadership team, they are like a little clique. Right. They're they're a little group. They're each other's peers and they go to the same meetings and they're laughing and they know this. And they, you know, they're in on the secrets and we're not, you know, like whatever it happens to be. They get all the fun swag, you know, like whatever, whatever it is where you are. Like they're kind of like their own little clique. And then for you to say, oh, come into my space. Right. And then give me feedback. So it's not even like you're coming in to like celebrate or grab some candy off your desk. Exactly. You come in and give me feedback, even though I'm at, right. Even though the stat, we've kind of talked about status management, right? The statuses are different. Are we in influence? The organization is different. Like the power dynamics, which you brought up, like that is all not on the same playing field, but please come to my space. and give me give me feedback I promise it's safe right like that's not that's not how you build that psychological safety but it's also um or safe space it's also and obviously just doesn't work it doesn't yeah and I think open door I don't want to say it's synonymous but you know even like when you do um Oh, I'm going to say people call them three sixty surveys. But, you know, you send out like during review time, like send things to people to get some feedback. It's almost the same thing. Yes. I mean, these couple of things we've talked about, there's status management that like, well, how real can I be on this form? There's the whole no news is good news where a lot of people still do that. But then there's all this factors in as well. Like now the door is open. Do people really feel like they can put down? Exactly. this form right exactly is it is this really this spot for exactly what you're saying when we talk about this even with like engagement surveys it's like they probably are not putting down exactly what they're thinking until it has become unbearable and they don't care if you know or anyone else knows they're now going to tell you because it's gone too far for them and then now it's hard to they're at the point that they're kind of fed up with it, which is the reason why they're telling you now it's like, it's worth going into the lion's den, right? It's worth going in there and saying something because we're all kind of fed up. Right. It's so, it's so bad. And that's, you don't really want to get there because now you are at a problem. I laugh because I feel like this is like the list of pet peeve day. It's even the whole, like when you have an anonymous survey and, Just think about that for a moment. If I need to give anonymous feedback, that means I don't have a space where people feel safe to use their voice. Yes. Yes. I don't think our organizations think about that enough. And it's not a fault. It's just that they're thinking like, gosh, I want to create a space where people feel safe to give feedback. And that's true. Yes. And think about what it says about your culture when you're like the only way to maybe get some feedback on what they want to know or what we need to understand is anonymously. Right, exactly. And I've been on teams or around teams where, you know, the organization gives out anonymous feedback, you know, survey, engagement surveys, whatever it happens to be. And then when my core team gets together, it's like everyone expects, you know, exactly what's there. It's like we can almost, and many times in safe teams like that, I've even had people say like, yeah, you know, I rated it this way because, or I actually made that comment because, you know, like, And having conversations around it to add more light because I did do it and I will. And it's not anything that my team hasn't heard before. Right. It's things that we share all the time versus situations that I've been in where everyone is quiet. Right. And it's almost impossible for the leader to get out. Why are their scores the way that it is? Typically, the leader is shocked, you know, or surprised, whether it's pleasantly surprised or not. not so pleasantly surprised. It's still a surprise for the leader. And then when you have conversations with your main group, no one is sort of saying what that feedback is that they put down. Because again, you're in this spot of why would anyone, it's really not a safe space because people don't feel comfortable even talking about the thing that they wrote down, right? Even talking about their perspective that they want the organization to make. Right, exactly. I think that's open door policy and even as we think about these anonymous surveys, it almost puts that burden on the person that has less power to initiate that conversation, to put this feedback down. It's risky for them. They have more to lose than the other side. So by default, it is not setting people up to be able to give honest, open feedback. Right, right. And in reality, you know, my stance is that I think it's a leader's responsibility. You know, it's one of the reasons why leadership is so hard. is that it is our responsibility to make sure that people feel safe. It is our responsibility to actually go exit my den and go out into their den, right? Because they're also in a den, in a pack, you know, like go there because I am the leader. I am the person that's driving these relationships, that's driving culture. Like I need to go and do that. It's almost, I mean, we talk about it all the time. I can't even remember who said this, but like one of the famous voices in like just development was like leaders, you have to be the bigger person every time. And that's a part of that. It is a part of your role to be that bigger person. Even when you're like, well, my door's open. I told them. I told them. They've talked to me before. They've talked to me before. We laughed. They should feel comfortable, but they don't. And you shouldn't put it on them to do it unless they need to do it. Otherwise, you're going to see me. I'm going to be there on the line with you. I'm going to be in your meetings. I'm going to come up to you and say, hey, like, I, you know, I did this presentation on our new values. How did you think that went? Do you have any feedback from me? Like that's our job as leaders to do that. And it's so important. You know, I think about some of the moments that were the most pivotal for me was getting feedback from someone. Yes. And, you know, there were times where, you know, I, I didn't necessarily have it figured out like how to get the best feedback loops. So I was really lucky. I've talked on here before that, you know, I've had coaches and one of my first coaches, Isaac, was fantastic because, you know, I would come and we would talk about like, well, how did the day go? How'd the week go? And I would talk about something. And, you know, there were some pretty significant things. Like I remember one time where, you know, we had kind of like an incident happening. And it's one of those moments where you're like, when do we reach out to like, are we at a point where we're supposed to reach out like to customers potentially? Like, is it a re like, it's not a recall. It would have been like a, like just a, you know, maybe withdrawal. Like I had a, I had a direct, you know, a situation where somebody reached out early to someone. Cause they're like, well, I have a good relationship. I want to give them a heads up. And I was really hard on that person because I was like, how in the world did they not know that that was acceptable? Right. Like totally not acceptable. Yeah. Yes. I had a situation like that. And I had this person over here to help give me feedback and say, are you sure they knew the expectations? Like, was it really that clear? Like if it was clear, then why did it happen? Right. And so I think this feedback is so important. And so whether you're getting it from your people or trusted people, like who can be there to be this set of eyes that can tell you the things that are hard to hear. You know, I had that. I also, like, I remember I've shared on here before some of the most valuable feedback was when I had a direct report who said, you know, one of the things that really irritates me is you send me an email asking for information. I send it to you and I hear nothing. uh yes right and i i was trying to be mindful like i don't want to fill up your inbox you already have a million things to do blah blah blah and this person was like i just needed to know it was received yes yes if they never had stepped in to give me that feedback they every time i would ask for something they probably were like yeah what's she gonna do with it send it off um you know grumble as they were getting it ready And so you really have to think about that most, the things that are going to get you from where you are today to where you want to be is the feedback. Right. You're going to learn from just building your self-awareness, whether it's you've created space for the people around you or whether you have a trusted advisor that can really be real with you. Like feedback is really the only way you're going to get there. Yes. It's the only way that you know. I'm curious, when you talk about someone on your team that's like, I just need to know that you received it. I don't hear anything back. How did you get that information from them? Oh, that's because we were doing a start, stop, continue. Ooh, yes. We started doing start, stop, continues because, well, it's a two-way street. If I'm going to give people feedback, they should give me feedback. Yes. So it took time. It wasn't like the first thing people talked about. Right. But it also helped people test the waters on how I would respond on where I, you know, just it was it was, you know, we had training wheels on before we could have the bicycle going. Right. Right. Can you explain stop, start, continue? Because I love the way that you've used this in your career. But people have said, well, what is stop, start, continue? So just in case our watchers or our listeners have not heard of stop, start, continue. Well, one of the things that I noticed when I would get together with my direct reports for one-on-ones is that they were always focused on action things and projects getting done and all of that. It would take up so much time that we never got to the important parts about how are we doing as humans here and how are we serving each other? And so to be much more intentional about how we did that, number one, we started to start, stop, continue and did it at the beginning of the meeting. But this was where like, what is it that I need to stop doing? What should I start doing? What should I continue doing? And yeah, there were times where it was probably a little bit, um, you know, not as much thought went into it as other times. But once again, those were the training wheels. Like if I can start by saying like, gosh, it really annoys me when you put your lab coat over there all the time, or every time I walk in, your like hard hat is still sitting on my desk. Those things start opening up so that they can start telling you the harder things. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I love that because stop, start, continue is such an easy tool. And I mean, you can roll it out right now if you want to start it. And it's a good way for you to give feedback and receive feedback. So you can use it for yourself and for your team member, whether it's someone that you are directly managing or someone else, right? You can use it for your peers. You can use it for your manager. I'm like, hey, I would love to start getting feedback from you. Do you mind us doing this as a two-way conversation? I mean, it's just such a great tool for that. And before hearing your story, I never thought to use stop, start, continue as a for feedback, you know, it's like, well, what do we want to start, start, stop, continue to do for our team? Yeah, we've done it even like from workload where like, what is it on my list I need to stop doing? What should I be starting to do? And what do I need to continue doing? So I, yeah, I guess I, Yeah, we apply it in different places. And I love that because I've only seen it, you know, I've only used it in exactly what you're talking about, like workload or, you know, we're going into the next year. What do we want to stop doing? You know, like that kind of thing. But it is brilliant to use it from a feedback standpoint. And it's also one of those ways that leaders can step into doing, can step into driving this versus leaving it to other people to give you feedback whenever they feel like it, which was a part of my blind spot. I'm like, well, if they want to give it to me, they will. But no, my job as a leader is to go and get it. So when I hear your story, I think it's such a great one because it's one of those things that I wish that I had. in my career where if someone had just said oh just do a start stop continue for it i would have been like well you know if you ask me like who planted the seed to do that that i don't actually remember so whether it was something i read or something somebody said or maybe it was a coach not sure but it definitely is something that stuck with me Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And we we do share. It's funny because in boot camp now, our current cohort, we just did the stop, start, continue for workload. It comes back up when we talk about talk about feedback. So, you know, it's just such a such a great tool. And as leaders, if you are in this position where you're not hearing anything, you're not getting feedback, maybe you're not giving feedback or you feel like the feedback that you're giving is not landing. Stop, start, continue. Like that is a tool that you can just use right now to get that information. Yeah. And you know, I think the other part is, you know, clearly if you're here and you're thinking about, or you're, you know, with Catalyst, you know, we are all about practice. Yes. And I'm going to do our shameless plug. We have a bootcamp cohort starting May six. Yes, we do. And so the stuff that we talk about here, we go into more detail there. yes and we create moments for practicing and how does this apply and what is that like because even though it seems like a simple concept to just go do i mean just through my stories you hear i mean right like it wasn't something that was natural and even though i knew to do it i wasn't right yeah practice and have a system to do it and even now there's times i do it better than others and i'm still a work in progress yes yes as we all are right but if we I think one thing that our programs really focus on, like you said, is that practice, but being intentional about how you incorporate it into the work that you do. You know, if you find yourself, I'm like, how am I going to make time to give feedback? Do I need another meeting? Do I need? No. How do you build it into the meetings that you have? How do you build it into the touch points that you already have? of with your teammates, with your peers? How do you build that in intentionally, though? You're creating space for it intentionally to do within the work that you already have. I think the other part is, as a leader, you really need to think about what is it costing you to not have this feedback? Is it building trust with your team? Is it being more effective in projects? Is it how you show up as a leader in your whichever meetings that is? There's something there's always a cost to not getting feedback. Yes. So thinking about that is really important. And, you know, really coming from us who many of our clients, they're in crisis mode around their culture. If not having this feedback and being in the position that you might be surprised, your culture might be worse than what you think it is, or your team might be crumbling more than what you think that they are. They might not be doing the things you think that they're doing. I think about the earlier conversation we had where you think you've given positive reinforcement, but in reality, the team is kind of rolling their eyes at you, and it's really just creating negativity on your team. Many times, we know leaders won't know this until something else shows up in a way, and now their leaders are saying, what's going on with your team? And you're like, I had no idea. How many times do we run into people, and even clients that we're working with now, where there was a big surprise moment that existed for them that we're working through now yeah and i would say even if you're in one of these moments you know growing up in the midwest everybody's like you know here in minnesota where i live they're like minnesota nice so even if you're like well we feel like we have a good culture everybody gets along right yes there's still something to explore there you don't need to be in crisis to think about am i getting the right feedback and if i'm not what is that costing me Right. Right. Yes. The time to think about that is now, especially when you're not in crisis. Like, I would say that's the time to reflect. Right. Create some space to be able to think about these questions. And again, just use a simple tool like stop, start, continue to start gathering this feedback because this is the moment to do it. Right. This is being proactive. This is proactive leadership versus when you're in a crisis. If you are a leader, you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. That's what it's supposed to be. And even actually at the summit, Jade talked about that. One of the things Bootcamp prepared her better for was being in this mindset to know that being uncomfortable doesn't have to be uncomfortable. How do you prepare for it? Because we all know that's the growth. If we're in our comfort zone, we are not growing. So in order to be a better leader, in order to shift the culture, like it starts with these moments and that can be feedback. Absolutely. Yeah. I like the way Jade talks about it. It's like it's this mindset shift right between how I show up as a leader and what's expected of me. and feedback is a part of that right so if you're if no one's giving you feedback you know i'm just going to say it again no one's giving you feedback that is a problem right to go out and find it you cannot win yeah so you know if if this episode landed somewhere for you like we said boot camp starts may six that's only like two weeks away yes and that is Fourteen weeks of this type of work. It's the self-awareness we talked about. It's feedback. It's expectations. Gosh, these are all the things I talked about in my story. Communication. And it's about building these habits that either help you build your team or it quietly holds them back. And giving you the tools to execute. Right. Like we talked about, we talk about stop, start, continue and building that muscle and having the tools to actually start to shift behaviors. Yes. So we're going to put the link for that in the show notes. But of course, we'd love to have you join us, like experience why this is different and how you can show up different. Yes. Yes. We'll make sure the link's there. Of course, you can always find information on our website at catalystfoodleaders.com slash programs where you can enroll and learn more. Yes, so that's today's Real Talk. Remember, culture doesn't change until leaders do. Yes, and we will see you next week. Bye.
