hello everyone welcome to real talk with tia and jill hello hello welcome to the week yes yes which may be a short week for some people here in the states right with the holidays it is our holiday week here it is it is And we're, right, we're on the conversations around leadership and we're excited for you to be here today. So welcome, welcome to Real Talk. This is where we have honest conversations to lead people forward in food. We are, hello, if you haven't seen us before, I'm Tia. This is Jill. And today's episode is about why betting only on high performers backfires. And we're digging into how your leadership investments either reinforce silos or build real systems for growth. And this topic is near and dear to us. I know this is a topic given for you, Jill, that it's like high on your list. Yeah, it's one of my I would say almost like pet peeve because every time I hear people talk about, you know, especially this time of year with performance reviews, And then like these senior leaders all go into the magic room and put people's names on the nine box to see who falls where and who's worthy of development. Honestly, it breaks my heart a little bit. Yeah. Because it's this judging and categorizing of just what I'm observing, which is cool. But yet it's what I would love is, or what I would invite people to do and what I would love them to do is really to invite in. The people that aren't in these top performer boxes, what's my contribution to help them grow and move into those boxes? Yes. Yes. And we don't do that enough. No, we just go, you know, they've always been like that or, you know, they're doing this or that. And it's really as we talk about ownership and we're in the space a lot about food safety and owning food safety and owning your quality measures and owning your operations. What about owning your leadership responsibilities? Right. Yeah. Owning your people. Right. And we see this where people struggle at an organization. And then they move to a new organization that actually values them, right? And put work and resources into developing them and they thrive. Yeah. Right? Like how many times have we seen that where it's like they just exit and then all of a sudden they're thriving. And even themselves, we've talked to people that's been in that situation. It's like they are able to lead in a way that they thought was impossible because the organization before gave them that impression that they're not worthy, right? Of development, that they're never going to be a leader, right? People People are told you're never going to be a leader. You're not fit to lead others. Right. Like these are the things that they've been told. They go to a new organization that values them and then boom, they blossom. Yeah, that's you know, I think it's the whole like you need to bet on everybody. And, you know, I totally understand because early in my leadership journey, like if you would have said, hey, that person that seems to be your your problem person, like if you would just spend some money and develop them, or spend some time, like I bet there'll be a high performer. I would have been like, doubt it. You don't know this person. They've been cranky from the start. They've always been the naysayer, whatever, whatever. Right. And of course, through my journey and learning and having the experiences of how do you win that person over and how do you really tap into what drives them? Right. Yeah. That's what gets them to move forward. So that has nothing to do with, you know, where they've been and what they've done. It's all about how you as the leader help them thrive. Right. Yeah. And that really goes into our trending topic too, of this myth of only top performers should get access to development. Even meaningful access, because I think they'll be like, oh, well, we give something to everybody. Right. We do this all training. Everyone goes to this annual training or we did this thing for everybody at the organization. And sure, they've been through it. And we know, right? doing a one-off training doesn't stick, right? You're not going to see the movements that you want to see just by doing a one-off webinar or one-off, you know, workshop or a one-off sort of thing that you brought all the group together to do. You know, I kind of think about like a town hall or when you bring all your managers together into one place, right? And they say, well, that person did go to that. We did have someone come and speak and do that. Right. But like you said, it's really not meaningful or targeted. Yeah. You know, and I know I often go back to like, let's just do the basic math. But if you have a team of ten people and you're like, gosh, let's just develop the top one or two people and try to get twenty percent more out of them. You know, that only comes out to even if you have two people, forty percent more. But if you take the other eight people and try to get ten percent more out of them, That's eighty percent more. Right. I put through the math in my head. That's double. That's double. Right. It's double. And that's right. You're not getting as much as you are out of one person. But even if you only did five percent, that's still forty and it's equal. But you have everybody involved and engaged. Yes. You know, it always confused me why organizations will hire people and they have people on payroll and paying people good money, but don't actually get their value. Right. Just want to let them be. And it's, to me, it's always been odd, you know, like, and we see it, right. We see people and it's like, oh, you just write, help them see even where they want to be. Cause sometimes if you actually invest in someone, they might say, whoa, you know what, this isn't the right space for me. I need to go somewhere else. And now I have a clear view on how to get there or what I need to do next. And we know that, right? We see people when they come into our leadership bootcamp and maybe their manager has invested in them because they're not working well with other people on the team, or they might be on a performance improvement plan or close to it. And then they get into bootcamp and really do the work. And they're like, huh, okay, do I need to be here? Or do I need to be somewhere else because I'm burnt out or I don't like the direction the organization is going in, or I need a change in my life because things have happened personally, right. That I need to pay more attention to. People come to that realization when you put real resources towards them. Yeah. And I would say they even, it even goes the other way where people are like, wow, I really do know how to do this. I really can do better. I really can own my role here. Yes. So, you know, it's not just people who are essentially being coached out because they have a different love or a different skill set or purpose. But it also helps people who are kind of even on your on the fence, which is a lot of them, according to Gallup engagement studies. You just give them that little bit. They're going to be your biggest supporters. Yes, yes. And really the truth is, right, like the strategy of only betting on and developing your top performances it limits your capacity. And it builds this resentment. And ultimately, it burns out your superstars. It burns them out. And because especially now when we think about the new generation coming in and the younger generations, they see what's happening. The older generations have given them this viewpoint of, wow, I've worked. This has happened to me. I've worked so much. They've seen their parents work so much. And they're saying, well, I don't want to do that. And then they also see, right, like, oh, man, if I move into leadership or if I do this extra work, right, am I going to be compensated for it? It's really like you're developing me to do more work when others. Right. You're not really putting that investment into and they see. the discrepancy between right the the imbalance between the two groups when in reality one group is saying please develop me right please give me some of that give me some of that ownership give me some of those tasks give me that development when we have just not given it to them right we just kind of ignored them and working on this other group that ultimately burned them Yeah. And I think that's the biggest part that, you know, even though organizations kind of hide behind the whole, um, what do we call it? You know, it's kind of a trap, right? They hide behind it because it looks efficient. Like, Hey, we, we did all this, all the numbers, we put them on this map. We, you know, like they really try to justify why it feels strategic to them to say, I'm only going to invest in these few people. Right. But then that's also where we have so many companies that say, gosh, we don't have bench strength. Oh no, somebody left and our succession plan is all messed up. Or somebody had to go out for FMLA and now we don't even have backups. Like, yes. They have created these systems that are so fragile that any amount of disruption causes business interruption. Right. Yes. I mean, so it's not just about, gosh, it's a good idea and it helps people feel good. But this is once again about being a business partner. And as a leader here, you are supposed to help minimize business risks. Yes. Enable business growth. So having these spaces where you have more robust businesses, you know, train teams and people who are developed, that is only a win. Yes. Yes. I think last week on real talk, um, maybe when we watched the Simon Sinek clip where he talked about like a personality culture, right? If you're leaning on your top performers and you're right, like not having been strength, not knowing, right. Who succession planning, what happens if your, your superstar leaves the organization or gets promoted? If you can't handle those shifts, your culture is based on a person or a few people that you decided to invest in. If they leave, right, that role, then that culture also crumbles. You don't have a sustainable culture, right? You're not building your culture. And you're really building it behind a person that will leave at some point. Good or bad, right? Yeah. And I think the other part is, you know, just it sends that message. That culture of like, you don't matter. Yes. Wow. Who wants to wake up and get excited to go to work at some place where they're like, you actually don't matter. Right. Like it only matters that you show up to do the work, the daily work every day. But beyond that, like you don't matter enough for us to invest in you. Right. And so what happens when you feel that way? Right. You take a step back. You see it all around us. Right. Eighty percent of employees are not engaged at work. they have gotten a message from someone and uh dare i say like you may be like oh not me but i hate to say it but yeah from you too right matter They don't matter. Yes. And it's not that you're doing it intentionally or you probably be even not even consciously. We've been there. Like the system says, this is how we roll. So it may not be the same message you would want to give, but when you're operating within the system and not pausing to be intentional, you are sending that same message. You're right. You know, I think it's something that can happens intentionally because that's really how organization build around their talent. You know, and it's almost like falling into like this talent trap, right? This talent trap that we have sort of, done as organizations of build around this top ten, fifteen percent and leaving others behind. And like you said, it looks efficient. It looks like a great strategy, but in reality it is fragile. And sometimes as leaders, you find yourself doing that if you just take a moment and just reflect on, OK, what have I been doing? You find yourself that you have maybe been doing it intentionally because that's how our systems have been built. Yeah. I think that's the other part of it, because so often we only know what we know. We talked about this the other week, that in leadership, it's not about what we don't know. Sometimes it's because we get so stuck in the only parts that we know. And so if all we've ever seen is just these few people that are lucky enough to get development- then that's what we continue to do. Yeah. So it really takes that pause to be like, what do I need to do here for everybody? It's one of the reasons we created Catalyst, right? Like Catalyst really is a disruptor. Like if you're working with Catalyst, expect to be disrupted, right? Expect to be differently than what you've been thinking because we actually challenge you to reimagine if you had an organization that didn't just rely on its top ten percent. Right. If you had an organization that actually relied on every single person within their organization. And believed it. And believed it. Right. And built your strategy around it, built your visions around it, invested in it. That is a disruption. Right. That's reimagining the way that you even think about your people in your leadership. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that's, that is the part. And that's actually even like, if we look at this and even think about how we apply the catalyst method, which we introduced last week, reset and our leadership reset week, which was fantastic. Yep. You should be having FOMO right now because we unveiled some new tools that made people pause. And I think somebody even said, gosh, you guys know how to ask the questions that just like, Oh, get us. right here because they are so insight. Well, they're deep. They really make you pause and think about, you know, who you are and how you're showing up. Yeah. Yes. And, and ask those tough questions of, you know, what message am I sending as a leader? You know, whether intentionally or unintentionally, right? What messages am I sending? What am I picking up? What are my actions doing? Yeah. And you know, as we look at even the catalyst method, which is really our process of like how people flow through this transformation, how organizations flow through it, it's this overarching, we call it the spark shift sustain method. But even if we apply that here, you know, spark is really this pausing to get clarity around like, where do we need growth and who needs that? Yeah. This is where a strong vision, right? Really understanding where you're going is important, right? Because then you can take a look at, and when you think about everybody in your organization, getting clear on what parts the people play, what parts do you need them to play, right? And where does that gap, where does that gap live, right? Like if it's like, oh man, Tia's in this bottom half, not performing well, but I need her to be a high performer in this area, or I just need her to perform in this area. Right. What skills do we need to help her get and develop right. In order to do that, like that takes real, that takes real. thought and you have to really put some thought into it and get that clarity around it. Spark is all about doing that type of work. It's a lot of understanding where you are so you can get to where you want to go. Yeah. And I think there's different ways that we approach it with clients. I'm going to use one as actually somebody described it to me the other day, and I thought it was a great analogy or a great metaphor. So, so often, like when, remember back in like elementary school when you'd be making teams or, you know, in the neighborhood and you'd pick teams. Yes. And the person who was kind of the last one picked or, you know, the people that you go somewhere and they kind of sit by themselves. Like that's the person when you think about like who needs to grow. They start there. Yes. Yes. Because that person, for some reason, is feeling like they're not in the loop, in the belonging circle. Right. Bring them into belonging, because we know that is so critical to people being able to contribute at work. I think that's a great metaphor, because we all understand it. We all probably have been picked last at some activity. Right? And just thinking about if someone was going through the spark phase of the catalyst method, having conversations around, right, Why do you why are you sitting over here? Right. Like what? Why do you think you were even picked last? Right. Do you want to be picked first? You know, even getting into the psyche around what is that person? What do they want to contribute to? How do they fit into the broader picture? Because I'm even thinking about like I remember I was picked last for soccer and I'm telling people like you don't really want me. You know, you don't want me to be, I don't really need to be- Right, you don't feel skilled enough for something to be there. Exactly, right? I gotta figure that out. Right, right. And then also trying to figure out, okay, well, I'm not trying to be a soccer star, right? That's not what I'm trying to be, but I need these people around me, right, to help make me successful. If someone had a conversation, right, I guess if this was an organization versus on the recess field, thinking about, okay, where do you want to play? How do you feel like that this fits into your broader plan around your career and where you want to go? You know, we've all had those projects where it's like, oh, I don't really love it, but I need this project in order to move forward, right? In that case, do we need to dump everything into this person so they can be the greatest person at this project? Probably not. But we need to develop them enough to be able to be successful here, but also that they are able to pick up whatever skills they need from the project to move forward. And sometimes we just miss that because we're not planful. Yeah. And I think that's the beauty of like how we run through the method, because when we think about spark and an individual, it can work like that. Oh, if we also think about how do we do this within our team? I know I've shared with you Tia that when, when I was early career, like lab manager, you know, we had a really small, we had a small lab, six people, but we had like, this person does only this, this person does only that. from a business once again that's risk written all over it yes so when we sat down to say like how do we grow our team to have better coverage how do we do that like once again that's all in Spark about inviting people in to say like where do we think we have more risk like how would we fill that like who who here like would be able to do that. And how do we do that together? Yes, we can even do that as just within our own team to have better coverage. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Operations might think about this as like skill sharing. Right. Or getting multiple skills and, you know, running different equipment versus like you might be great at running one piece of equipment. But we need you to know how to run two pieces or three pieces. Right. And be skilled at that. Like you said, in order to fill gaps or to have that bench strength. Otherwise. Right. Once your superstar leaves or the only person that knows how to do it leaves, gets promoted, then what happens? Yeah. You know, I think the other part is it applies to the organization. So we also had gone through this growth phase as an organization. And it was during a time where there was a lot happening with customers, there was a lot happening with products. And even within our team, we knew that our team needed to somehow shift and grow to build capacity enough to support the business better. Yes. For example, you've all been out there when they're like, well, hey, we're going to be sending X, you know, two times as many new products through. So we're going to need people doing more supplier approvals. We're going to need people looking at ingredients, HACCP plans, like all the stuff. What if we don't have enough people on our team to do that? Right. So even as an organization, and I use the food safety function as an example, but that happens in every function. So at Spark, when we think about developing people and building capacity, it's not just, gosh, it feels good. It does. It does feel good to help people grow. But from a business standpoint, it's also about the strategy that we need to support the business better. Yeah, it really is critical, right? To build a business, to support the business. And many times organizations is late. right like we're already fumbling we're already have retention issues we already have engagement issues and then we're trying to go back um and most of the time right like we we've also had these clients where maybe they started a little too late and they're trying to go back right and they need it to happen right now but we know culture change takes time Right. And it takes time to do these different parts. And so we this is why we have real talk, because we want you to start thinking about it right now before things get wild. Right. Before before you look up and you say, wow, you know, this person is no longer here. What are we going to do? Or this new business is coming through that we've been developing over this last year, two years now. now what are we going to do because we don't have the resources? We want to start thinking about that right now. That really starts because I think even though we may have enough time in our day to be like, gosh, wouldn't it be great to grow bench strength or wouldn't it be good to do this? We maybe even start something, but we don't actually get into it. I think that's really where our shift phase comes in because people have fantastic ideas coming into their brains all the time. But if we don't take action on them, you'll know nothing happens. And so shift is really this space where, you know, as leaders and thinking about growing people where you have to go to the next phase. Yes. You have to actually start doing this work and have the plan. And otherwise, you know, all we do is stay where we're at. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, once again, with eighty percent of our workforce not engaged at work, that's really rough. Yeah. And shift is where people quit. Right. Like people have like you said, people might know we have a skills gap issue. I know we do. I might not. I might can't say exactly what it is, but I know we have a skills gap issue. I know we're going to have a problem in the future around bench strength. I know we have these key people retiring. What are we going to do? We've talked to clients and they have this notion of, we know there's going to be something in the future that's going to cause us some issues. So we need to do something. They've done some of that spark work, but then they stop. Right. And there's people out there that will help you do assessments and help you, you know, sort of figure out where are your gaps, where is this happening? And then they stop. Right. Like how many how many organizations do we run into? They're like, we've done years of engagement surveys. We've also done this other assessment. We've done DISC. We've done CliftonStrengths. We've done, you know, all the things which those are super cool. And people walk away and they're like, wow, I know more about TIA than I did before. Right, right. Okay, now what are you going to do about that? And then they stop. You know, even talking with organizations, they're like, oh, we're having problems with culture, and they're like, oh, you know, this year we're really going to focus on culture, and we're going to start with an assessment again. You already have the data that you need, right? You need to do the work, and that is what the shift phase is all about. How do you actually operationalize your plan? Right. How do you actually do the actions? And I think this is one thing that actually sets Catalyst apart is that we're actually there to help you facilitate and walk through. And we have tools built for this industry to help you actually do the work and start seeing the transformation. And I think the big part about that is, once again, it's the science of coaching. This is the part that most training and other programs don't bring in. This part that really is about, you know, we bring in the elements of adult learning, neuroscience, behavioral science. We don't just talk about these theories. We have the tools and the systems in place to help you move through them. Yes. Yes. And that's important because a lot of people don't understand human behaviors or at least how to shift them. A lot of people don't understand how does adults learn the newer science. Sorry, technical difficulties. My technical difficulty, Tia, you already know this, is my dog wandering around. I know, right? I know. So you at home are tuning in or watching. Yes, my technical difficulty today is my six-month-old puppy just not being in the right spot. Right, which you know what? Here we are. We deal with it. Well, you know what? You're in the process of doing the work. We're working on shift with her right now, really. We are working on changing behaviors. But I mean, even though it sounds crazy, it is the exact same thing that happens when we are working, right? So like, here's the thing, Spark. I knew she needed some help. So we go to puppy training class. Shift is me doing the daily work with her. Right, yeah. And I'll be honest, there's some weeks I'm really good at it and some that I'm not. And of course, the weeks I work on it, I see improvement and I'm like, way to go puppy. Yes. The days that we don't, even though I might get mad at her, I'm like, no good job here, human. Right, yes. I cannot be mad at the puppy. It's not her fault. It's not, right. This is the same thing with leadership. Mm hmm. Like you can't be mad at your employees and the people around you if you're not doing the work to help get them there. Exactly. And I love the way that you talk about this, too, which is really within shift of like you're learning yourself, right, your development around it. But then you are doing the work, you're practicing and then you're reflecting, OK, I didn't do that. I didn't do so great today. Right. Mm hmm. How am I going to shift or wow, I did a great job that worked well. Okay. I'm going to do more of that. I need to do more of that. Right. And that that's hard work, right? Because like you said, some we're humans too. That's why it's so important to understand human behavior. We, we go back to what we're, what we know, right? Like we go back to these, to these habits that we've already built and we have to consciously intentionally make different decisions every day every week right and that's hard to do is the reason why a lot of people hire us right and bring us on because they need that partner to help them move forward and help them build new habits new neural pathways in their brain because one day it is going to be like tying your shoes right yes this is the hump this is the part where you need the catalyst to get over that activate you know you need the activation energy And I do this with the puppy too, where I'm like, Oh, I'll get that training in for her. And I don't. So now what I have to do is, you know, after dinner, no matter what's going on, I'm like, you all take the other dog so I can work with this one. And then I also asked somebody else in my family to work with her for like two minutes. Yeah. Like, If I don't create the actual time for this activation energy and put that time in, I'll never get to sustain with her. Exactly. I love how you called out the background of our name while we said we are catalysts. It's because for the science nerds out there, when you have a catalyst and a reaction, the activation energy is not as high because you have that accountability partner. You already have the tools is there. You already have the science behind human behavior, behind coaching, which we know is super effective, you have those tools already. So the activation energy is not as high. Sometimes when we look at the shift phase and people are thinking about doing it on their own, that mountain seems so high on top of everything we have going on that's happening internally. But also we know right now it's a wild time in food. right and so even externally we have these external changes happening right that we have to stay on top of so it feels impossible that i am going to bring someone along that i don't see that's a high performer right that seems like they're struggling that seems like right like it's it's easier to just take a look at those high performers and say well i'm just going to add it to jill's plate because jill know how to do it and jill has done this before and Jill right like and Jill's over there like you know what time out I got a lot of stuff going on too right right and you know maybe my ego appreciates it because like oh look I can do that and I'm getting more and I'm getting more visibility and whatever that is but the reality is is you know we we need to meter that out and we need to share the load otherwise we're not creating a cohesive team right exactly exactly the daily leadership it habits are what's really important. You know, Tia, I know you last week you were traveling and I had strategic leader. And one of our members in there, we were just reflecting back on like where they are versus where they were, you know, six months ago versus even we've worked with this person a while, even two years ago. And when I'm like, what do you think is the difference? And immediately they were like, because I make it a priority. I make my leadership a priority. I make my people like making sure we have clear expectations and that we're on the same page and that I'm including them. I make it a priority. Yeah. And I'm like, so you didn't before. And they're like, well, I thought I did. Right. Yeah. I thought I did, but I wasn't at least not in a meaningful way. And that's where I think it's really, you know, as we think about developing beyond the superstars, it takes, This commitment, this making it a priority, making it part of just who we do and how we lead. And these daily leadership habits, right? These daily pieces on how do we give them the development that they need so that they can start learning, practicing, reflecting and practicing and reflecting, practicing and reflecting till it's time for them to really think about how do I sustain this habit? And that really goes into the third phase of the catalyst method, which is around sustain. Yeah. Yeah. And I do want to jump in there, but I do also want to say, yeah, like for people who are like, yeah, well, you know what? Like I try, but I just haven't gotten there. Career builder has a statistic that says just about sixty percent of managers say they have never received any formal leadership training. Wow. So Lots of people out there who are like, I'm just trying to figure it out, like on the fly or I'm doing, cause I see someone over here doing it, or this is just what I know. And so when we think about even navigating, like by betting on everybody matters, like if it's never been something that you've even been exposed to go, that could be important. What we're talking about today could feel all new. Yeah. Yeah, you know, just like I said in the beginning where it's like it was surprising to me that organizations don't invest in every single person that they hire and that they literally pay out funds every single year to have. You know, this this statistic also is like mind boggling to me where you have sixty percent of managers that haven't had any formal training. but we've promoted them into leadership roles. And it's one of those things where it's almost like a sink or swim. It's a sink or swim situation when if you just give them some training, if you just start them with some training and start having them think about and start building these, like you said, daily leadership habits, it is exponential on how much more effective they are as leaders in the organizations. And we see it, right? We see it in the high performers because they've been developed, right? They've been given these opportunities. So they're ready to step in to these roles when for other people, right, they're not. And you also see it too. This is really interesting. And I'm kind of curious from the audience, like as they're listening, Do they have like even examples in mind of this where you see a technical high performer move into a leadership role and then they don't do as well because all the development they've been given are technical assignments. Versus like, how do you give them more assignments around this really go towards the statistic, right? How do you give them more experience on leadership, right? Building those leadership skills so that when they move into this leadership role, they already know how to build relationships. They have already created safe spaces with groups around them, so they're hitting the ground running. They know how to use influence and the different influence methods that we talk about in bootcamp. They've already practiced those some and they know what works well for them, what doesn't, what works well for people around them and their team. They've already gotten some of this stuff figured out before they move into those roles. I've seen it where high technical performers fizzle out when they become leaders in the organization manager of people leaders because they have zero leadership skills yes you know and you know I like to use sports analogies but it kind of reminds me of times like my boys have come home from hockey and maybe they had a tough practice and they're like so-and-so sucks and they suck and they suck you know if you're out there like I want you to know my kids don't believe they suck they're just really frustrated I do say, well, then, you know what? Why do they even invite them to practice? Maybe they should just stay home. Otherwise, they're just taking up other people's ice time. And my kids look at me funny. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, you guys could totally just play one line. But it's this moment to be like, yeah, we can't. Right. And it's this feeling of like, you know what? Even though they're not so maybe as great or where we need them or inexperienced right now, like we can't give up on them. Right, yeah. We still need them to be able to make us better, to be able to help grow so that we can actually do better as a team. And while that concept may sound funny, the same thing happens at work. Yeah, it does. It's the exact same thing. So we can think about those people, right? Like, oh, that person, that person. We need that person. Imagine if that person had the right skills. Yes. And I think that is part of the lean to and to sustain, because this is why, like, even in this hockey program, there is a system of doing drills and a system of right along and a system of like, making sure people are not always with the same partners on the same lines. And like, this is all part of the plan and the system so that right? People can grow from where they are. It's not about everybody being like top first line people. And like, that's where we invest. It's, No, even the people who are, you know, maybe won't even get a lot of playtime. We're still working on developing them little by little. Yes. Yes. It's this development that's really embedded right across all roles, across all levels of the organization. You know, and it's one of those things that as we talk to our clients about the catalyst method, we're really getting deep on that. you know where is this person right where do you want this team to be and how do you want these systems in place to help drive that over time because we talked about it earlier as a human being we're gonna we're gonna go back right we're gonna go back if we haven't quite developed that muscle right or those new neural pathways we're gonna try to go back but But if you actually have a system in place that corrects that says, oh, Tia, OK, it seems like you're off a little bit. Let's have some more conversations. Right. Let's talk more about it. Let's let's see. Oh, that didn't quite work out. What other ways could we handle the situation? If you had those systems in place, right, you're able to catch it faster and you're able to develop that person to move them forward so that they can make better habits. And I think one of the things when we only look at high performers, we don't develop those systems because we're looking at people that maybe naturally do that, or we have chosen to be that person in the organization, whatever those reasons are. And so we don't necessarily need a system because we're focused only on these people. So you miss out on this system that needs to be there to make sure that all your people are rising. Right. And in doing the work that we need them to do. Yeah. And I think that's the big part because we often only think about development when a performance review comes up or there's typically the like once a year, like let's look at your development plan, which may have only been developed kind of half-heartedly to begin with. So as we think about how do you embed development into just like, this is who we are. I mean, that's, that's what culture should be because companies, won't grow until leaders do. It's actually impossible. So if you're not thinking about how I'm developing leaders and developing people, when you think about your business being flat or always on better efficiency and trying to cut costs, well, the reason they're doing that is because they have not invested. They don't have a system for investing. So they are caught in the crosshairs of trying to make the numbers look good. Mm hmm. You're one hundred percent right. You know, one thing that you said the other day when we were talking about sustain is like this is really where culture happens. As we talk about really building in the ways of working, how we are, how do we show up, this is who we are. This is really where you get that sustainable culture. You've done the work, you've identified, you've set some clarity with Spark, you've been doing the work with Shift. This is where you know, is your culture going to survive? Yeah. And that's why I think it's exciting when we get to work with companies who are like, we know part of who we are as a company is this ongoing development of our people and not just technical. And I would say, oh, gosh, I shouldn't say job specific because clearly being a leader and human skills are job specific. But yet for some reason, our brains and don't quite connect those up the way they should these days. but they're the ones who are like nope we have pathways we have a program i mean our shameless plug right they're the ones who work with us to say we're going to have people when they come on go through boot camp or frontline leader they're going to move through the progression so that they have success through their career not just the one class right exactly it's not just the one the one thing right because we know behavior human behavior does not shift with one touch point right and humans, our set points shift. So today I may feel like I've grown a lot and I may be really content and engaged. But over time, if this development doesn't continue, it starts to all fizzle. Yeah. And that's where the sustain then just falls off and the culture falls off. So the system and the sustaining the growth and the cycles with it is really important. Yes. Yes. Otherwise, I mean, this is really ROI as well. Right. Yeah. If you just do the other stuff, you're probably going to lose out because forgetting curve takes over. This repeated thing is where you get the ROI that are, you know, like crazy big. Yeah. Yeah. This is very technical terms. Crazy big. Right. Well, I mean, right. There's things that show like companies that have a progressive leadership development program. or development in general, have it was at seven hundred eighty six percent higher return over ten years. Yeah. And it's in like one of these books back here. That's the real number. That's real data. That is real. That's real. Right. And if we can just get a little piece of that, right, like if you could just get a little piece of that by building in systems around how do you develop your people over time? How do you build in this progressive leadership development? And you get a piece of that. right, you will start seeing the difference. You will start seeing the difference. And one of the things, we have a stat here from Harvard Business Review where it says that companies with strong leadership cultures are four times more likely to outperform peers financially. Right. This is where the sustain come in. This is where they enable business growth, which is a part of our mission. Right. All of this. We want this to be for you, for the person's well-being. And we know they're working in the field. Right. Like just our clients. We want them to have this business growth. And we know, like you said, it's impossible to grow if your leaders are not growing. And many organizations miss that. They miss it. But they're still trying. Here's the thing. They're still trying to tackle culture, right? They still want, oh, our culture is not where it needs to be. Oh, we're still having these recalls. Oh, we're still having these failures. You know, oh, our people are still leaving. They're still disengaged. We want to work on this. And we're like, what have you done for your leaders? And they're like, well... Not much, right? Yeah. And your team in general, because once again, if you're only looking for the top ten percent of your people to get leadership development and you're betting on them for performance, you're leaving a lot of people behind who are actually part of the drivers of your culture. Yes. So the more you think about I need to bet on everyone, the more capacity you build, the more profit you get. Once again, this isn't like rocket science and there's plenty of white papers that show all of these things connect together. The difference is whether or not you and your organization will prioritize it. Right. Yes. It's the whole, I want to be healthy, but I want to eat M&Ms. Like I can't, not forever. If you want to be healthy, you got to eat a little bit of the other stuff periodically. And companies, we still get stuck in the whole like, I'm just gonna work on my next quarter results. That's all I'm interested in. And we do it because it's easy. It's easy to just focus on the top ten to fifteen percent. It's easy to pile them up with work. It's easy to do that piece. But this is hard work. Being in the food industry is hard work. And the work that we do is hard. Leadership is hard. It's heavy. It's heavy. We're dealing right now in the midst of the by heart baby recall. Yeah. Talk about heavy things happen when we are not developing people and improving culture. Yeah. And investing, right. Prioritizing. I love the way you say like, it's not rocket science. It's about prioritization. It is. It's as simple as that. And discipline. We talk about that all the time. It's just consistency. So, you know, the companies that want to be in business, you know, and I'm going to say be in business, but also aren't just focused on I'm going to sell to a VC or someone else in two years. Right. People who are truly like we are in this because we believe in what we do. We believe we want to be here. We're part of the community. We're part of feeding the world, whatever those missions are. That will happen and does happen when people invest in more than just the top two people. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, you you called out the numbers. here even on today's show. I mean, it's mind boggling to think about that I'm only going to develop the top fifteen percent of my organization and leave eighty five percent of people that keep in mind we're still paying. Right. We're still literally spending millions of dollars on people that we are not investing in properly to ensure that they are effective. And I mean, to me, to me is a no brainer on how do I really shift my priorities to make sure that I'm getting the most out of all of my people. Yeah. And I think that goes into some of what we've talked about where, you know, I think often people are like, well, you're a high performer, so we're going to reward you with this. Cool. Like, I mean, yeah, I guess you could do that. Yeah. But if that's the only way that you're thinking about who qualifies, I guess, for development, then that isn't a strategy. No. And if you're a leader in an organization, I would hope your organization values that being a leader means I have strategy for my team. I have strategy for my function. I have strategy within the organization. Yes. Yes. You know, it makes me think about the times where, you know, I fought for leadership development, you know, versus this is this is something to an organization. You can think about, you know, I've worked in operations. I worked in food safety and quality for organization. And it's like the operations team get this development that's happening. And then food safety and quality. We have to fight. Well, if I was if I did the same role, but I just had operations tied to me, you would include me. How does that make sense? You have to fight this case of this is why I need this development is because it really is a business strategy. This will help me work better with my team. This will help me engage my team. This will even help with my low performers and help them become more engaged. and you know i was lucky sometimes of being successful at that and sometimes i wasn't successful right and didn't get that development and afterwards literally having conversations saying well i wasn't there right i don't have those tools right so like we we i can learn those tools happy to learn it but you're using tools that i haven't been invited to be a part of so my team Yes. Aren't doing those things. And the only difference is because my team says food safety and quality and your team says operations. Yeah. But we're all supposed to be one team, which I think is fascinating because like one of the questions we had for the audience was right. Like who in your organization is waiting to grow? But they just have not been invited. Mm hmm. And I think that's important because I know there are definitely companies and leaders who think, gosh, employees and team members need to be driving their own development. Oh, yeah. You know, and I, I, I love you for thinking that. Like, that's fantastic that you are shifting your responsibility to just your people. Yeah. A little bit of my sarcasm there. I get it. You know, there are people who are like, I am go getters type A. I'm going after everything. That's cool. Not everybody's like you. People have had different environments and experiences. So to think, sorry, dog eating paper, not good. To think that somebody is just going to feel that they are worthy of it is false. So they may be sitting there being like, I don't know if I'm worth it or I'm not sure they would invest in me. they need the invitation. They need the invitation. They need the permission and they need to know that they matter and that it makes a difference. So that's why as leaders, we have to be the ones responsible for at least inviting them. We can't make people do things, but come on, if you're building capacity in your team, if you're reducing risk, why would you not invite people to the development table? And this is a great question to think about because When you think about who hasn't been invited, in order for It takes action. You have to invite versus saying, oh, just find leadership. You're responsible for yourself. Just go find some leadership. We may or may not say yes. We haven't given you a budget. We haven't told you anything. We haven't said, hey, this is what we're focusing on from an event topic standpoint. Just go and find something you like. Let me know. It's so hands off. It's not effective. Come on. We know it's not effective. We do it year after year, and it's not effective. But it also says, well, I don't I don't have any work to do here. Right. I don't have to do anything as a leader when in reality leaders we do. Right. Leaders are doing leaders are action oriented. And so when you think about who's waiting in your organization but hasn't been invited, you need to be thinking about I need to do some action for that person. I need to invite them in. I need to have conversations. Right. I need to use my leadership skills. Right. I need to use my soft skills to be able to connect with this person and figure out what the next path is. Yeah. And just think like what could actually shift your organization if development was actually built in and not just tacked on. It wasn't just the afterthought or the oh, my gosh, because we have extra money because you never have extra money. Right. What if it was one of the things that. Like we're doing development regardless if we're at the end of the quarter or the end of the year and we're like spend nothing, no travel, no filling roles, no nothing. Like even that attitude like causes everything to pause. So what would shift if development was actually like built in the system that you're working in? What would shift? What would shift for you? What would shift for your team? What would shift for your organization? Yeah. Sorry. Just thinking like, isn't that mind blowing to think what could all happen? And it's possible, right? We see it every day at Catalyst, right? We see it every day with our clients that things do shift. You just have to put in the work. They, yeah. And you know, I get it, but you may be like, oh, I don't know how to get money for it. I don't know how to talk about it. I don't know how to whatever those things are. Let me pull up. I do have our download here. I can share this there. If you are watching this on YouTube, just scan this QR code for making the case for development. It is a guide that actually walks you through all of the steps to make the business case. For development. And if you are listening on podcast, we'll make sure that the link is in the show notes for you. Yeah. But you don't have to do this alone. Like back in the day, I didn't know how to navigate it besides like sending a link or, you know, back then photocopying something and sending it to my boss to say, can we get approval for this? Yeah. I wasn't savvy enough to put more behind it to make it a compelling business case. And that's exactly what this guide is for. Mm hmm. And this is important because it shows that you've done the work and to understand right now, I even gave a A short example around making the case around why I need the development, just because my title said food safety and quality versus operations. And I've worked in both spaces. And one thing that I wish that I had was this download, because it outlines the pieces on, OK, what do I need to really think about when we think about return of investment, when we think about what the strategy is? For me, I'm like, I need this development. I need it. And it doesn't make sense that I would get it stayed in this role, right, two months ago, it doesn't make sense. I'm doing very similar tasks just with the lab or with sanitation versus with my line team. But if I had this download, right, that really walks through how to make this case for development, I would have been successful in more times, right, than the times where people are like, nope, you know, yep, you have the title, this is what we're doing. right and it's because as an organization right like it it needs to be built into the strategy as a member you should understand how your leadership development built into the overall strategy of the organization and this download helps with that it does um you know once again we're here to talk about you know why just developing your high performers backfires so here's a tool to help so that you can advocate for developing beyond just your superstars. Yes. So scan that QR code. We'll have the link in the show notes for the podcast. If you're listening to us on your favorite podcasts. Yeah. And, you know, as we think about even going into the next year, I know it gets busy with holidays, but it's never too early or too late to sign up for our leadership summit, which is February eight. Yes, it is all about reimagining leadership. And if you are an email subscriber with a confirmed email, because I have people who are like, I signed up, but if you didn't confirm it, you're not getting our emails. But we do have fifty dollars off for early bird registrations through December thirty first. So take advantage of that. Once again, developing people. Developing is important. Yes, yes. And this is our second year doing our leadership summit, and it is just fantastic to bring together like-minded people in the industry. And like you said, this year, we're really talking about reimagining leadership and being a disruptor in the way that we have traditionally thought about leadership, traditionally thought about developing people. where we really want to think about how do we get the most out of everyone around us? How do you get the most out of even yourself? We know who we are, right? And sometimes we don't bring all of ourselves because we have so much going on. What if we had the tools, right? To really deal with the things that's happening around us, really be able to balance ourselves, right? And really have this true sense of wellbeing with our work, with our life, with our world that we have going on. We want you to think about that differently, right? And think, yeah, I can have a lot going on in my life and still be a strong leader at work, at home. Right. Yes. So the link will be in the show notes. Otherwise go on out to our webpage and under resources summit, you know, and I think it's a good reminder because leadership is not a one person show. Culture does not grow on its own. Just as we talked about here, all of this takes intention and it takes a system. It does. It does. So we're excited that you joined us here today on Real Talk. And if this conversation sparked something for you, we would love for you to share it with someone who you know leads, right, the same way you do, with heart, with grit, and want to reimagine what does leadership look like for them, their team, and their organization. Because you know, right, just like we know, that when leaders grow, cultures change. And with that, we will see you next week. If you are in the States, enjoy your holiday. Make it a great week. Make it a wonderful week. Bye, everyone.
