Hello, everyone. Welcome to Real Talk with Tia and Jill. Welcome. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the week. Yes, yes. Welcome to the week. We are here in the States. We're, what, a week and a half away from some holiday time. So the holidays are kicking up, right? They are, right? That's kind of just around the corner. And we are in reset mode this week going into the new year because that's important, right? Yeah. And it's easier to start thinking about it now than when the new year's upon you and you're like, what is happening? Yes. So welcome. Welcome to Real Talk by Catalyst Food Leaders, where we have honest conversations to lead people forward in food. And if this is your first time with us, I'm Tia and this is Jill. And this episode is about what food leaders are letting go of. We are talking about the habits, beliefs, and behaviors that leaders in food know aren't working. And now it's time to release them. Yeah. And I think, you know, even as we started, we said, these are the things that are important as you go into the next year, because we need to really ask ourselves, like, what are we still holding on to that's no longer serving us? Yes. We go through these cycles of, you know, we're going to talk about it, of these creating, I'm going to say pain cycles in our own life. And we do have agency to let go of those. And as leaders, you know, becoming a leader doesn't always start with setting more goals. Sometimes it actually starts with letting go and releasing what doesn't work. And that can be a goal in itself. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So we're excited to have you here either watching or listening to the show this week. Yes, yes, we are. And we know this is a top, a top issue for people because we see it, right? We see it with our clients on just that point of how do, how do I let go? Or many times people don't even know that they're holding on, they're holding on to something. Right. At least not to the degree that they, that they recognize. Yes. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So to kick us off in our What's Trending, we actually wanted to kick off with a video from Simon Sinek, and he talks about leaders letting go. So I am going to share my screen really quickly. Let's see. Had it all teed up. Yeah, bring Simon on in. There we go. Okay. Okay, here's the clip. One of the most difficult things to do for a leader is to let go. Because at the end of the day, we trust ourselves. Sometimes we say things like, well, I'm just going to do a better job, so why don't I just do it? But the problem is, is we're making the whole business reliant on us. And that's a weak business. That's power of personality. That's not a strong business. I'll give you an example. David Marte, it's the second time we've invoked him. The submarine driver, the submarine captain talked about how on his submarine, they had one guy who was the best guy at parking the submarine. He was gifted in parking submarines. And so whenever they came into port and they needed to park the submarine, guess who they got to park the submarine? And then it occurred to the captain once that what if he's sick? What if he can't do it? I have a problem. And so he asked somebody else to park the submarine. And here's the problem. Didn't go well. And so the temptation is to go back and ask the best submarine parker to do it again. But he didn't. He waited and he let the new guy try again and again and again until he became an expert submarine parker. And then guess what they did? They asked for a third guy to do it. And what they're doing is building a bench. And we sometimes are that submarine parker. We know we're the best at it. We've been doing it longer than everybody else. We usually care more than everybody else. And so the question is, is how do you have the patience to let somebody fall and try again, fall and try again and fall and try again. What will give them the motivation to try again is that they can that they know that we're in their corner cheering them on. It is very hard. I'm not going to lie, but it is essential if you want to build a scalable business. All right. Hmm. Right. Letting go. And, you know, this specific example in here really is more about letting go of like work and things you're doing. I think that definitely the tangible part that people sense in this industry, like, can I let go of, you know, running that report or doing this when we have startup or being in this meeting? So I love that. But I also like the things we're going to talk about today that are kind of the underlying things that lead into those. Yeah. And one thing that stood out in his in his clip, he's definitely talking about the things that I think people get people into firefighting. Right. Like, I feel like I need to be there. I feel like I'm the best person for it. I haven't really spent the time to build my bench strength so no one else can do this type of work. And I like that he called out have the patience. to make sure that people are building these skills but the thing that really like stood out to me was he said this if you're not actually letting things go and in this case he's talking about like letting maybe even like tasks go so other people can do them is that you're built on the power of personality and this made me think about leaders and leadership because in organizations sometimes we're like oh this is a great culture we have such a great leader but they're the only leader in the organization that will do well on this team there's no building of the team around their leadership skills right we're all jill i think you talk about this a lot on how we just focus on the high performers and those are the ones we're building leadership skills around But what if your high performers sick or out or wants a new opportunity and now you need to promote them, right? Which organizations struggle with promoting some high performers because they want them to stay in that role because they're great at it. But it's because you haven't actually build up the skills of people around them. And so it feels it's almost like this false sense of culture, whereas like our culture is so great, but it's not. It's built on one personality or a few leaders in the organization that just so happen to mold together, work well together. What happens when someone new comes in? Yeah. That in itself is business risk because we've all seen examples where people are like, oh, somebody left the company and oh my gosh, how are we going to go on? Right. Oh, now everything seems miserable and this uncertainty. And there's an aspect of that is just, you know, part of change management and the change process. But part of it is that built upon, like you said, a personality, right? yeah if the rest of the culture isn't there like you should be able to swap people in and out essentially and not have it disrupt people's lives right like that would be the ideal culture where like we're sad to see someone go but we're happy for what they have next and we know we're gonna be okay Yeah. And we know that people shift, right? Even if it's for promotion within the organization and they're not leaving, right? We're going to still see them. That shift sometimes is just so disruptive because really the culture of that team is built around that leader versus, like you said, equipping people so that if you need to move someone out, right, they have those leadership skills to lead that team, but they're building on the technical aspects. That's why they need this role, right? That's how they're growing themselves. And we miss that. And many, many times, I mean, we've talked to the organizations where they're like, twenty years ago, our culture was great, right? Or what people use the example or the excuse of COVID. Well, pre-COVID, we were awesome. Post COVID, not so much, right? And it's because we haven't really developed these leadership skills to be able to manage change, to be able to manage conflict, to be able to manage people's personal lives, right? Like COVID disrupted not just work, but it disrupted our lives so much. If you're not a leader that know how to manage that and still bring out the best in people, you probably struggle and probably still struggling. Yeah, and I think that really goes into, like, you know, obviously we want to talk a little bit about the things where we need growth, but to be able to have growth, you have to create space. To create space, you have to let go. Yes, yes. Like, we only have so much time, energy, resources available to us. Mm-hmm. So we need to be, you know, strategic in how we think about moving those forward. Mm-hmm. And before we go into the next segment, I can't not say anything about the submarine and talking about Darren. Like it's a great shout out to Darren. And now I'm really curious, like, how do you park a submarine? So you may have to ping him later and, you know, get his thoughts on that. That is so true. That's hilarious. We should do like a side segment with Darren to see him. And what do you think about this clip, right? And how many people around you knew how to park the submarine? Right. Is that like, you know, everybody? Like, that's just a part of the skill set? Or is it really like one person? Right. I'm just now I'm really curious. And I didn't even realize you'd actually have to park a submarine. Right. I guess so. Makes sense. Those are the things we haven't had to think about. But Darren can maybe answer those questions. Yes. But for now, we're going to let go of that so we can talk about the other things. Ooh, I love that. Yes, yes. And, you know, as we think about, we talked about a few things. Obviously, Simon kind of talked about letting go of like tasks, right? We talked about even equipping people with leadership skills so that they can let go of tasks, right? So their culture is not built around personality. But there's a lot of things as leaders and maybe even you listening or watching today that you're thinking, okay, I know I need to let go of something, right? Because we know to grow, you have to give up something, right? The question is, what's worth releasing? Yeah, and I think it would be great if you're with us live or even if you're on replay or a podcast, you know, drop in the chat. What's one thing you know isn't working but feels hard to let go of? Mm-hmm. Like, what might that be? One of the common ones that I see, especially as we talk to clients, is this false urgency. This false urgency of everything is important, everything is urgent. Yeah. And I mean, whether I'm here in this space together with us or seeing it, like thinking back to my days, like working in corporate, it's the classic, like, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait. Like, that's the classic. Like, there is no actual urgency. Right. Yes. Yes. And we see it, right? The hurry up and wait. especially the requests, right? The requests come in, I need this today by end of business day. You get it done, right? And then nothing happens for weeks. Right, and I think from the person that's been asked, right, to get this information done, right, you're on this urgency sort of like high where you're like getting stuff done, getting stuff done. And then you turn it in and then nothing for weeks. And when I think about how does that make me feel, right? Like my time wasn't really worth much, right? Or, you know, I probably didn't have enough information. Why is the deadline so quick for me? But then we don't really use this information. I think as leaders, when we tell our team over and over that the things that we're requesting is urgent, urgent, urgent, urgent, you're really communicating to your team that their time is not important. The thing that they have going on is not as important as the things you need to get done. Yeah. I think those subtle messages are really important. And it's more about like being respectful of people's time and understanding what they have going on versus, oh my gosh, I need you to drop everything and do this for me. And we get that, that comes up, right? No joke that comes up and there are times, but it's typically, um, I think about how often we're looking to be people pleasers. And we feel like we need to have information right away before we pause and ask better questions. Like, what will we do when we have this? Like, what are the possible options? Does this actually help us make the next decision? Or is it just busy work until we... figure out what the next step is right yes yes and i feel like some people think about oh that's when they think about this thing of false urgency instead of like letting it go they make an excuse of well that's just the way that we work here right that's just our culture we like to move fast we like to do this we like to do that right but in reality you're not actually moving fast you're just creating this false sense of urgency so people can either give you information or feel like they're doing something you know sometimes I don't even really understand like why the sense of urgency you know like why is this so urgent right now why do we not spend time planning around it so that we don't make the mistakes that we saw last year or the years before right and people hide behind well that's just how we how we do work when in reality we should be thinking about is this something that I need to let go Yeah. And once again, I'm going to go back to the whole respect thing because every time we do that, that typically kicks in some amount of like response in terms of like cortisol and adrenaline and like these things that kick off. And those are the things that, yep, they can be, those are the, No hormones or no chemical reactions are bad, but we all know those are the things that contribute to, you know, baseline stress levels. So when we are always in this sense of urgency, we are simply creating environments that this baseline stress level is higher. And as leaders, we're the ones who need to be able to let go of that so that we give permission to others to let go. Yes, yes, absolutely. I love it that you brought up stress levels too, because I wrote a post over the weekend on LinkedIn around stress. how this is the time that, you know, we've had the most job loss. It's also the time that we have the highest stress. And a piece of that, right, like this job loss is new, that's adding on to the stress. But research shows that we've been living at this heightened level of stress for many, many years that's very different than before. and i think when we think about it in business and how leaders run in this false sense of urgency we are we're creating these situations that's creating this level of stress and then we're just staying there and then eventually our we feel like that should be that's baseline for us yeah but in reality it's doing something to our bodies it is and it's also you know, it's also leading into this culture where people are like, well, we like to be agile and we like to have, be innovative. And there isn't enough discernment between what does agile mean? What does flexibility mean? What does being innovative mean? Because it doesn't mean urgency. Right, yes. In fact, I think most people, the people who do things really well will say, you know, I couldn't go fast until I could do it right. So I think when we also think of false urgency, it's usually because there's some amount of something went wrong and that'll probably lead into another one that we think we need to let go of firefighting. Yes. But for us to be able to do things well, we need to have some consistency and flow in what we're doing and then we can start moving fast and be more agile. Yes. Yes. And it does, it does connect with firefighting, right? Many, many times people are firefighting things that they feel like are urgent when it's really, it's not, right? Or you need to just be planful so that it doesn't show up as a fire, right? It shows up as this is the normal part of what's coming up next, right? Like we have, we're ready, we have planned, we have resources, right? So it's not a fire. It's, we've either put it out and we don't see it anymore or we understand that it's a natural part of this process and we're prepared for it. Yeah. It reminds me that there's several different like quotes or, you know, little things I see periodically. Some of them are like, you know, your lack of planning does not mean it's my emergency or some version of that. Yes. Yes. Because it's true. I feel like that's what kind of comes up from firefighting and, and, You know, just thinking about in the food industry, I do think that we're at this point of we feel like that's our normal is firefighting in this false sense of urgency. When in reality, it does not have to be that way. Right. We don't have to live that way. And actually in great cultures, they don't live that way. No, because that's just waste. That's wasted dollars, wasted time. That is all waste. So when we think about. you know, that we don't have high enough margins, we're not making enough profit. Well, firefighting is contributing to that. And I think sometimes it's the underlining piece of what food leaders, right, are letting go. And Simon talked about this of just these hero habits of I need to do it myself. Yeah. Right. And sometimes and we explore this in leadership boot camp on what's causing these firefighting and helping leaders, right, understand what the root cause is so that they can ultimately let it go. But a piece of that is why do you need to be involved? Right. What part do you own of this? And really having leaders think through, am I having a hero complex? Right. Or is it something that I really need to be involved in and intentionally thinking about those things? Yeah, you know, I think it's one of those spaces as well that we have to really be cognizant of when our ego is kicking in. And I don't mean the ego that's like, I'm so good and bold and all that. But we do have this ego that does pop in and have whispers to us sometimes like the whole like, well, I'll just do it myself. I could be faster. I can get this done. Or even things like I kind of like firefighting because I know what I'm doing and I do it well and people appreciate it. It's often helpful to think about what, like, once again, how are these things serving us or not serving us? Yes. Yes. And it's okay to, I mean, I've had them too, where I'm like, oh, my ego is flaring up in this moment. Yeah. Like this response, this feeling I'm having is all because my ego is feeling a little bruised or, you know, a little picked on. And I have to pause before I am actually reacting versus responding. Yes. There was another clip I was thinking about using today for our trending. And this neuroscience was talking about how it was basically talking about habits and why they're hard to let go. And she was explaining that she was kind of explaining from like eating. I'm not sure if Tia is still going or not. Yes, I'm still here. Can you hear me? Or if I'm still going, maybe I'm the one who paused. But the internet's not being great for us today. Oh, no, you're still going on my end. Oh, you are not going on my end. Oh, no. Can you hear me at least? Well, I can, and now you're back, but all of a sudden it stopped. Okay, good. Well, hopefully the technology behind all of this still sees our videos. Right. That's the whole thing with technology. But what I was talking about was this clip I watched of a neuroscientist who was saying that she was using this example of when cookies are in front of us, we eat them because that's what we do with cookies. Right. And she kind of talked about like when we step into a habit like eating cookies or tying our shoe, we don't actually think about what we're doing. Like we don't think about the steps of tying our shoe. And our brain does this because otherwise we'll be like super overwhelmed if we have to think about like how to tie our shoe or how to drive a car every single time. It's just kind of built into our habits. And she talked about that there needs to be a trigger of like what happens, cookies in front of us, or we need to drive a car, a behavior, right? How you drive or the eating of the cookie. And then there needs to be a reward, right? Driving, you get to where you're going, cookies, you feel full, right? And satisfied. And so when you talk about like someone who who loves firefighting, right, that who's in this like in the trenches. Right. We've heard we've heard that in the food industry is that we're actually trying to get to that reward of, oh, yeah, I know what I'm doing or the satisfied of, oh, I solved that problem. Right. I led that problem. Or just think about even as you're listening, think about those times where, man, you were in this really stressful situation and you keep going back to stress because of what? What is that reward that you're getting at the end? You know, I think when I think about it for me, it's like, well, it always works out. And so the feeling of going through this and at the end we have something that works out. Right. Sometimes that keeps me in that circle because it's never not worked out before right we always find a solution at the end versus like being intentional to say what habits am i leaning into that i really should let go of that's causing this high stress moment right this false sense of urgency this firefighting or just you know i want to be involved because why because i love doing it right but really i'm causing chaos for other people Yeah. And I think that's an entire like we could do an entire episode on that as well, because that is really the root of like even why. And we'll talk about this in a few minutes. Why we use the science of coaching. Yeah, because it is intended for us to have recognition at those different spots. so that we can understand, like, why do I like all this firefighting? Like, what is it that it gives me? And those are some basic questions you've probably heard if you've read, like, The Power of Habits or, you know, pick one of the, you know, two million, you know, help books, self-help books that talk about how to change habits. But it has to come within. It has to be this intentional awareness of what am I doing and what am I getting and what am I going to choose instead? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But it's one of those things that makes it hard for leaders to let go because we're so used to moving at this fast pace at work, just in life, that we don't pause down enough to be like, wait, what's really going on here? Right, right. I love it too, Jill, that you related it to innovation and being agile because we've sort of made all of that synonymous to urgency. And you're right, it's not. No, I mean, I would even argue that the companies that are most successful are the ones that, well, you start with a plan and you work the plan. There is, I mean, unless there's something cataclysmic that happens, you shouldn't be shifting away from the plan. And that even comes into things like, I mean, I'll make it up, but like tariffs. Mm-hmm. Like we've heard we heard that messaging for a year. So as a business, that was a risk that you could look out and start going, what will we do when that takes place? Right. Did everybody do that? I can't speak to that. But as an organization, like those are the things that help us be better business partners when we can start seeing the things external, sometimes even internal, to have better awareness. Because if it's going to disrupt the plan that we know is supposed to create success for us, then that's all about like, right, that's just risk identification mitigation. Right, exactly. And some people might be thinking, okay, yeah, I see the external side. I see the external things happening and it might be external of the organization or even external of your team. But like, I need to like make this perfect before I send it out. Right. Or before I have this conversation with another leader, before I start building those plans. But in reality, perfectionism is just kind of stopping us. Right. Yeah. I mean, perfectionism is obviously not real. Right. Like that's a standard that is that there is none. That's a made up term. It's a made up term. And what it looks like, what perfection looks like in our head is also made up. Oh, no. Can you hear me? I know. Gosh, it keeps coming up and down. This is what happens when you do things live, right? I guess so. You cannot expect perfectionism. Nope, we can't. But I think that's one of the things that as leaders, especially as technical leaders, because we are used to like having very specific things and specific answers. And even though we're like, gosh, we can deal well with unknown. I mean, I don't know about you, but I know a lot of scientists who really don't deal with unknown that well in the stuff that's in front of them. Right. Conceptually unknown, no problem. But the things in front of us, I think that's not so easy. That's a problem. So letting go of, gosh, I have to know all the things. It's one of the reasons why leadership is so hard for technical people. It's because we are, we struggle with the unknown and the biggest unknown is human behavior. That's like the biggest unknown. You really don't know how people are going to respond. You can get pretty good at learning them and understanding clues and all of these things, but you really don't know how people are going to respond to things. And so in order to get to a place that you understand that and understand are able to set clear expectations, are able to move forward and work the plan. You have to be planful. You have to be intentional and you have to have conversations. And all of that sends down to leadership skills, right? You have to have these leadership skills in order to prepare for these things. And I mean, Let's be honest. It's the reason why Calus exists. We're not that great at leadership skills because we, you know, most of us don't get any type of training until what we are a leader. And then all of a sudden. Senior leaders. Right. Senior leaders. Right. And by that time, you know, how many people have we, how many cultures have we created that's poor? How many people have we, you know, really just got off base because we weren't great leaders? Yeah. Yeah. That is a great point. And I think that's part of why this letting go and even letting go of the stories we tell ourselves about how we're showing up or how we think people are experiencing us. Those are things that are worth examining what needs to be let go. Yes, yes. And as we go through this next, this next part where we are going to help you really think about, you know, how do I start to let things go? We want you to ask yourself, what is worth releasing? What do you need to release going into twenty twenty six as you think about the type of leader you want to be? Yeah. Absolutely. You know, and I think that also leads into people are like, I think we're like, logically, we can think about letting go like, gosh, that shouldn't be that hard. But it is extremely hard. And that's really why even today, as we like go into this, we want to tell you a little bit about the catalyst method. Because people often ask us, well, like, what do you all do different to help people let go or to help people be better leaders that others don't? And this is a framework that we have been using since the beginning. It's proven. It's people first. And it is developed for us here in the food industry. And this is really about helping people move from these, like Tia was talking about, these reactive habits where we just let the neurons keep firing and we don't intervene. to be very intentional. Like leadership and success is about being intentional. And the part that's really fantastic about that is when we are intentional, we're also creating more sustainable outcomes. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And when we think about our, our method, right, our Catalyst method, it is built on the things that we have been talking about, behavior science, coaching psychology and decades of experience in the food industry. And like Jill said, we've been using this structure in all of our programs from our reset week that's happening this week, which we hope you join us, as well as our leadership development programs from boot camp to strategic leader, our workshops. Really, we build this science into the way that we overcome these habits, become better leaders, because we know what's happening around habits and how we show up. That is science. Yeah, and I think that's the part that is very unique about what we do. We have taken these things that are all theory, like even as we talk about food safety culture, there's like, you know, the maturity maps, and that's a theory. There's adult, you know, human behavior, which is a theory. And Coaching, the science of coaching and coaching psychology is really about making the change happen. And this isn't just about theory. This is the catalyst method that we have done with clients. And if you're out there, like, give us a thumbs up because, right, you've experienced how real change happens. It's moving, yeah, from this theory to action, right, to something that's actually practical. And our technology, of course, is doing the same thing again. Oh, no. Oh, no. Am I back? Yep, you're back. OK. Yeah, we move from this theory to action. This practical application, that's how we like to talk about it, especially as we think about culture and leadership. And yes, we know we need to let go. We know we need to do these things. We know even what we might want to release. But the action of doing it, that's the work, right? And at Catalyst, we really focus on the work because we want to actually see leaders advance, not just download the theory and understand how it works, but how do you show up every day, right? How do you shift your behaviors? How do you shift others behaviors? And I love it. Last week, I was having a coaching check in with a boot camp alumni. Well, they finished boot camp a year and a half. They were in it a year and a half ago. So they finished. Well, they had started like two years ago almost. And they were telling me he was telling me about like the tools that he still uses on a regular basis. Mm hmm. And that is the part that's the magic. Yes. And it all started because he had this spark. I'm going to use our terms here, right? The spark of self-awareness to be like, huh, I keep getting stuck with my team members at this space, in this spot. What do I need to do different? Yes. Yes. And that's really where the method starts, right? It starts in this first phase of spark, where you really are gaining this self awareness, where you really pause long enough to notice where you're stuck, what's preventing you from moving forward, you might know all of these things, you might you or you might not right like people that come into boot camp that come into strategic they are really at all levels of um of the leadership journey right they're in different parts it show it shows in different ways one great thing about our program is that it meets you where you are So you can really, it's very personal. These are things that our clients tell us while they're in the program and even afterwards, where everyone is in different places, but it is so personal to what you have going on. And it's really because of this first phase of Spark, where we really dive deep into who you are and how do you even notice what's happening with yourself, with your mind, with your self-talk, with all the things that we've talked about, even on Real Talk over the years. Yeah. And I would say, you know, even with this, it's not just noticing you, but also, you know, we talk about in the three dimensions, it's you, your team and your organization. And so even Spark is the place where you're like, hmm, maybe as we talked about firefighting, you were like, I need to let go of that. Right. Yeah. Like that can be the thing that sparks the awareness to be like, I just can't sustain that any longer. Like I need to make a meaningful change around that. Yeah. And, you know, my shameless plug, if you are saying that right now, then reset week starts tomorrow. Yes. So just go on out to catalystfoodleaders.com forward slash reset dash week. or pick any of our posts lately. They all have links to it. Yes. But it's this three-day, three sessions. It's free. And our goal is to help you all spark. Where are you at so that you can start putting plans in place? This is the work. This is the preparation part, the intentional preparation, so that when you do set your goals, when you do start to look ahead and start to think about how do I shift, which is the next phase, Right. You are planful. You're intentional because we know we talked about earlier. Right. Habits are built into our brain. It's it's how our brain says, hey, I don't need to think about that. I don't need to concern myself with this. I know what we're going to do. And to break that, you have to be intentional. That's where spark comes in. Absolutely. And spark is the place. It's the catalyst to help you move to the next spot. And that's really like thinking about how do you shift? So as we think about these habits and how do we break up those, once again, those neurons that are firing so fast, we need to create something to help those pause. It doesn't mean every time it happens, like I'm training my new dog, I got a clicker, click, click, click. Not that. But it's deep, thoughtful questions so that you can understand, like, what's taking me down this path? Like, what are alternate ways that I would prefer to go or that serve me better? Because, you know, we always say change starts with you. Number one, that's not something we made up. But if you're looking around and you're thinking, gosh, my team, like we could work better as a team or gosh, our organization could work better. Like you have to be in the spot where you're willing to shift. Yeah. If you're not willing to shift and do some of that work. then welcome to where you are right now. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Right. And that's okay. Not everybody is ready to move to the next spot, but if you're, you know, but you also have to be aware and realistic about like, am I doing work to actually move forward? Excuse me. Or just, letting my story play this, letting my brain play this story that I think I'm making change and moving forward. Yes. Yes. And such good points because shift is really where you do the work, right? And depending on where you are, where if you're ready, if you're not, if you thought you were ready, if things get scary, right? Like shift is where you figure that out, right? And you keep pushing through and why coaching is so important and having an accountability partner and really what we serve for our clients. are those things, right? That they can do that work. And even when it feels like, oh, this is not really working, let's explore other ways, right? Like many of you all have talked about, like have talked with us around learning the material, right? But then practice and reflecting on it. Didn't work, let's practice again. Let's reflect on it. Let's do it in different scenarios. This is when behaviors start to shift. But we know the first time you try it, it probably won't be great. Right. I love when Simon Sinek said the first time the submarine operator, the second one came in and parked it. It actually wasn't that great. But leaders have to have the patience to allow their team to thrive. And that's what happens in shift. Yeah. And as humans, we also need to be able to give ourselves some grace and know that these habits we've already created for years probably aren't going to shift overnight. And there's going to be periods, and I've done this, where I'm like, wow, I thought I had that covered. And then like a month or two later or six months later, I'm like, huh, wow, I'm actually doing that thing again. Right. I didn't even realize I drifted. How do I get back to where I need to be? And typically when that does happen, it's because I wasn't creating space to be intentional. Right. Yes. Yes. I was thinking, check the box. I got that one done. Keep going. Right. Done. Learned it. Yep. I did it a few times, got it mastered when reality was, I was doing well, but because I left my focus move from it, I didn't, I quit working the plan. I didn't get the outcome. You know, or people, we see this with people who feel like they're great leaders is that they have, they were a great leader. They've been living in this bubble of the space of, Ooh, I'm so great. but people around them have changed, right? People have moved in and out. Other things have shifted. Other things have shifted, right? So the way they lead now no longer connects with the new audience that they have. Shift is when you do that work, right, around it. I remember I sat on this webinar, I think it was a Gartner webinar, and the woman that was given the, that was facilitating it said that, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but she said that culture change is not hard. The hard part is patience and perseverance. We have to have the patience with ourselves, with our team, even with our organization. and the perseverance to push through those times that people just aren't getting it. Or we've said it multiple times, I kind of think about having a toddler, right? You say it multiple times, say it multiple times and still don't get it. And obviously their brains are still developing in different ways than adults. But when you think about adult learning, it's the same thing, right? It's the same way where people have to be told over and over, we have to be told, over and over until we get it right and then again i love your example jill even then we still need intentional reminders am i leading in the best way what has shifted around me that i need to shift with it you need to have those intentional touch points it's one of the reasons why we created enrichment right those monthly touch bases for leaders to come come in and think about what am i doing and am i being intentional about it and what do i need to shift Yeah. And this is the part as well with the, the coaching that we use in the science of coaching, the psychology of coaching is all around understanding like what, what were the things that made us choose to go this way versus that way? Right. And it's not about judgment. Like, oh my gosh, I did that. That's horrible. It's like, cool. Recognize it. And now be in a spot where you get to like write the next lines of the story, how you want them to go. Yes. And I think it's really important because you may be listening. I know sometimes we're kind of like, ah, look at things change and people haven't changed, but you know what? Everybody changes. can be a better leader. Whether it's I have direct reports or I don't, we talk about this on a regular basis that even if I am in a spot where I'm an individual contributor, you are interacting with people around you. And the way you step up and to own what you're doing and have the agency in your role is leading. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I want people to hear that, right? Like you do not have to be a manager of people, right? You are a leader in an organization. It's actually the reason why your organization, your organization hired you is to be a leader in the organization. I just had the, the internet blurp again. Oh no. I think Tia's coming back. There she is. I'm here out here in space. Yeah. Yeah, I think like you were saying, even as an individual contributor, leadership is part of what you do. And there is an element of taking care of the people around you to be able to move things forward. It's probably a different proportion of your role compared to someone who does have direct reports. But the more we take care of people, the more they can take care of business. And that's why shift is so important. Yes. Yes. It's so important for us to think about the people around us and really shifting our perspective that it's we're here to take care of each other. And that is that shift is hard to do. Right. And like we said, this is really where the work the work happens. But at the end, we get the reward of sustaining. Right. Which is our which is our third phase. has really sustained is building the systems the support the reflection that reinforced that change yeah yeah and that's the part where you know we often talk about like you get to look back like when I was doing the coaching check-in like think back to where this person was that's what I did two years ago yeah like remember where like where were you struggling what was hard like Where are you now? That's helping them sustain the direction they're going and the journey because it can be hard. There is a lot of chaos. But the systems around them, like they are using the tools so that they have the right systems. It's not just relying on them to remember things. They're working on the people within the organization to help support and be speaking the common language and have this shared vision. Yes, yes. This is where I like to think about and you start to think about like the ways of working or how to incorporate this into who you are as an organization or how you how you show up in certain situations where it's built into this is who we are. And that takes work to do. And it takes intention to say, when are we going to talk about this thing? When are we going to give feedback? How are we going to give feedback? And how is that actually built into the way that we do formal feedback? I love it in the conversation. I mean, it's the end of the year. So I know a lot of people have been talking about performance appraisals. And one great shift that I've seen over the years around performance appraisals, even though there's some There's a lot of conversation around performance appraisals and like culture and that type of thing. We won't get into all that. But one shift that I saw that I really like is when performance appraisals take into account the hat. Yes, you met your goal, but if you ruined all the teams, if half the team quit in order for you to get that goal, not great. But if you led with purpose, if you led with heart, if you took care of your people, even if you did not reach the goal, but you took care of your people along the way, you don't have any retention issues, your people are engaged, and, and, and of that piece of the how, That's so important. And that's an example of how you can sustain the importance of if the how is really important to your organization, which it should be. If it's not, call us. We need to talk. Because that's something that is actually built into a system on how the organization gets things done, where a leader is forced to think about, hmm, how? How are we getting things done? Did we do things where we break people down? Or did we do things in a way that built people up? Yeah. I think that, well, this is where culture lives. This is the, who are we? Like how, how do we show up? It's not always the like, what do we do when no one's looking? Yeah, that's a part of it, but it's the whole like, what do we stand for? Yeah. Because if, you know, I think about, I'll go back to sports analogies. We just had the opening tournament for hockey, high school hockey this weekend. And not that we experienced this before, what I'm going to share, but this is not uncommon in hockey or other sports. The other team maybe wins, but they've piled up penalty minutes. They've had cheap shots. They're chirping everybody. They're doing hits after the play. They're getting players kicked out. I don't know about you, but those are moments when I'm like, ew. Right. like that doesn't make you feel good about the win. And even if like, even the loss makes us feel like, it's just icky. I think that's what we think about because we are so stuck, so stuck on only leading with KPIs. Did you make it or did you not make it? It doesn't tell the whole story. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. And I think that's why there's such, um, I'm going to say like one, a gap, but two, like leaders who really are hearts and human centric have this longing for what are the metrics that actually are more meaningful to tell us if we are aligning with our how and aligning with our, this is what we stand for. Yes. Yes. And that's how we connect right with our clients and help our clients connect that to their teams on how do I lead in this way with heart? Because we know, I mean, what, we didn't like create this, right? We have resources and data to show that when leaders lead from purpose, when they lead from this sense of well-being for themselves and their team, teams actually perform much better. They're more productive. They're more in line. They have a common goal that they can march towards, which helps them be more productive. You see more engagement. You see less retention issues. We have the data to support that. The problem is, it's hard to do. And even as we're working on ourselves, we're working on our teams through, you know, spark and shift without having sustained. I love the way you say, Jill, like this is where culture lives, because if we're not able to sustain it, we're going to go right back. We do. And it's the classic case of like, there's an empty space. Something's going to fill it. So we either fill it and be intentional about filling it, or it's just going to get like whatever's kind of leftover and happening in the moment. We know that's what happens when it comes to behaviors. And we, I mean, it's not just us. Like, I mean, coming from poultry, we've talked about like, how do you eradicate salmonella from chicken forever? Or even intestinally, how do we do it? Well, here's the thing. We know when we get rid of one salmonella, the other one's like, good home right here. Boom, I'm in. So if we don't intentionally put something else there, we're just going to keep having the same thing show up. So when we think about food leaders and what we have to let go of, we have to be very focused and intentional on like, what are we filling that space with? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And that's what we focus on in sustain. Yeah. And that's also why our method works. Right. Yeah. Yes. Which I think is a differentiator because that's, you know, we always say we don't do training. Like if you want forgetting curve to take over and for that big gaping hole just to have whatever come filter back in, yay, go train. But if you're intentional about like, I actually do want to fill that space intentionally, then that's where the catalyst method in our coaching and the other uniques that we bring to the table are going to get you where you want to go. And it's such a big part because, I mean, maybe that's a part of letting go, right? How do we let go of the constant training, training, training, right? Without meaningful practice and reflection and all the aspects that we need that really the Catalyst Method brings in because we've been there. I actually just read an article. I can't remember who it was, but I just read an article that said something around the putting like root cause as training, like needs to be trained, needs to be trained is actually preventing us from solving the issue. Um, which, you know, for people who are like problem solving nerds, which I definitely feel like we're in, we're in that camp, um, just because of our, you know, our background and food and working with, with problem solving tools. Um, but it's, it's one of those things that's like, oh, it's like the worst to see, you know, we, This team needs to be trained or we're going to retrain. We're going to retrain. If you're retraining, if you continue to train, train, train, train, train, and you get the same results, isn't that the definition of insanity? Right. That's the like, what do you need to let go of to have something else that can serve you better? Exactly. To get all of that hamster wheel. Yes. Well, gosh, we only have a few minutes left. So, you know, I always ask the question, like, what's something that you're ready to release? And why? Especially as we think about letting go. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think one of the things that I think about, and especially as like Catalyst continues to grow and connect with more clients, you know, we have many people that work with us, either on the consulting side or on the coaching side in different aspects. And we are continuing to grow. So even as we think about what's happening right now, right, and how do we let go of certain parts, right? How do we... plan be planful right be mindful and set people up for success but even thinking about how to how do we let go and it thinks about just my role in food safety and quality right where we we want to hold on to things right like we're the best we're the expert we're this um when in reality you know, other people can learn, right? Other people grow. Other people do know. How do we really lean on other people for that help? So I think for me and this is this is something that, you know, I have to go back just like your example, Jill, of like going back and thinking about like, what are some things that i'm holding on to that i that i need to let go when it comes to like doing things by myself right or doing doing this action maybe even thinking about around my home right like what do i need to stop doing and let someone else do hire someone or you know let theo take it on you know whatever it is let tiana take it off right as she as she's learning um that i need to let go of you know it's something i love this time of the year too um and i love it that we have our reset week coming up because like even myself right i'm gonna go through and ask myself those tough questions um as i go into yeah absolutely what about you What are you letting go of? Oh, gosh. Right. What's the one thing that would be good to let go of? You know, so I'm reading this book, The Art of Possibility. And one of the things it talks about is because humans have this tendency to need to always label or grade or you know, compare that it really limits our possibilities. So I'm really, I have this, you know, heightened awareness around this right now about like, how often am I applying labels? How often am I creating really kind of comparison places? And that's usually with labels like good, bad. I get an A or I get a C. You know, just there's all kinds of things. And I want to think about those more so that I can be ready to release those. Because otherwise those keep, those keep dividing us versus bringing us together and providing, you know, really possibilities for us and for others that's something to think about right yeah i really i don't like the labels of good and bad and right and wrong because it's like it's so subjective You know, and based off of stories that you put in your head or how you learned or how you grew up or what society, you know, so this whole idea of like, yeah, how do you eliminate not just those labels, but other labels and how is it impacting possibilities? Yeah. And of course, you know, I say that and I think about like earlier, we were talking about some of the things to release like firefighting. And yes, I'm labeling firefighting as disruptive and stress inducing and all those things. You know, even there, like, hmm, is there a different way I could look at firefighting? Right. Yeah. And I haven't necessarily done that. And I think there are people who are really good at firefighting and that's where they like to live. And that can be cool. But I think as leaders, it's our responsibility to recognize that's not how everybody will interpret that. That's not where everybody wants to live. And so we do need to like be more open to what are the actual things happening and the possibilities that could exist. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I like that. I like that. So, of course, we want to know those who are listening, watching, put in the chat. What's a leadership habit you're ready to release? Or what do you need to release, right, as you think about your journey and through the conversation we had today? Whether it's a habit or whether it's, you know, something that you just need to let go of so that you can be a better leader. Yeah, and what we let go of makes room for who we can become. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And even as we think about, you know, taking it one step farther, as we think about the different phases of the catalyst method from spark, shift and sustain, you know, which part felt most relevant to you and where you are right now in your journey? Of course, we want to know. We do. And if you're curious more about that, of course, join us for Reset Week. It starts tomorrow. It's free. You'll walk away with, you know, really a leadership growth plan for twenty twenty six that you can actually use. Action steps moving from theory to action. Yes. And if you're like, gosh, next week doesn't work, then you may, I mean, you should sign up for our leadership summit. I mean, you should, I'm going to shoot on you. You should sign up for our leadership summit, which is February eighteenth. And the reason I bring that up is because I know through the month of December, there is going to be early bird registration, but it's for email subscribers only. So you've, Sign up to be on our email list and make sure you confirm your subscription. Yes. If the email goes to spam, you're not going to get the early bird promo. You're just going to be thinking and waiting for it, but it's not going to show up. So if you're not getting more than just that initial, hey, thanks for signing up, like then check and see what's going on. Yes. We want to make sure that you get to be able to join us and get the early bird rate. Yes. Yes. This is our second year doing our leadership summit and we're super excited about it. You know, we heard such amazing feedback and I know people cannot wait to get in. So make sure you're on our email list so you can see that early bird. Yep. And we host these events because we know culture doesn't change unless leadership does. And leadership won't shift unless you let go of what's holding you back. Right. That's real talk coming from us. That's real talk. That's real talk. And so we always want you to know that if there is something that sparked for you, share it with someone who's leading in food, right? That's leading with heart, leading with grit, and want to maybe let some things go and become a better leader. Share this. Subscribe to our YouTube. Subscribe to our podcast so that you won't miss an episode. And remember, because when leaders grow, culture change. Bye, everyone. Have a great rest of your day and week.
